to point out to the teacher that a square is a rectangle?

[GooseyLoosey]

Part of ds's homework was to draw on a grid 2 rectangles with a perimetre of 8cm. He drew a 3x1 oblong and a 2x2 square.

Aside from the fact these were the only possible shapes without using 1/2 squares, the teacher marked his homework as incorrect as a square was not a rectangle.

Ds (who is a perfectionist) read this and was not at all happy. He shouted "it is, I know it is, it is. Mummy, I'm right".

Would I be unreasonable to tell ds to ask the teacher why a square is not a rectangle? Or are we completely wrong and squares and rectangles are mutually exclusive?

(PS - I really don't expect teachers to always be right - God knows I am not but this teacher is the school's maths co-ordinator).

it is, don't worry

Blimey, the teacher who didn't know the Americans were in WW1 is a danger to children, isn't she? That's really appalling. Something you might get from a contestant on a crappy quiz show who is up against the clock and not used to being in a TV studio, but not a teacher who is actually giving a lesson!

Bit sad if there are lots of teachers who dislike bright and enquiring children who go beyond the very basics to find out a bit more about a subject.

If you do have to correct something, you have to be very polite about it. But sometimes it's impossible to resist. ds's Year 3 class were covering the kind of work I do in literacy last term ? obviously at a very basic level, but his teachers were telling them a rule that wasn't quite right so when I was talking to them about something else I couldn't help mentioning it. They had no idea, had just trusted what the curriculum said. Which makes me suspicious that the people who write the curriculum don't know very much about the subject and don't do any research...

Freudian
It could easily happen at primary level if none of the staff have a maths/engineering/physics type background....

Some poor bugger still has to do the job of Maths Co-ordinator.....

I would find the relevant info from books and then go and talk to the teacher (or get my DS to) and ask for advise as to why she has marked it wrong when all the info in books says its right. I would ask in a nice way and ask for explanations rather than going in bolshy.

I only recently learned this fact, through schoolwork, because prior to that I would also have said it was wrong

I think it's a given that the people who write the curriculum have lost touch with both their subject and the children to whom it has to be taught...

Clever boy

I'm actually doing a maths degree ATM. I've been told I'll be snapped up for teaching if I do well.

I'd love to go into schools and improve maths standards, get children loving it and realising it's fun - and showing that there is a lot more to maths than arithmetic. But I know as a primary teacher I'm likely to be very restricted by the NC etc... Not sure I could do it without getting disillusioned.

DS2, in Y4 last year, had a maths exercise working out numbers of children from fractions (iyswim), and he particularly liked the one where apparently 4.33 recurring children were off sick.

We had a very similar experience with shapes in Y3; can't remember the details now but it was to do with regular and irregular shapes, and the fact that regular shapes need to be equilinear and eqiuangular - they were using 'regular' much more loosely.

You'd be snapped up if you were very good at teaching as well as maths.

Hmm I think I would. I've been planning on doing a PGCE. What is putting me off though is the lack of autonomy teachers seem to have... Just not sure anymore. Got a couple more years to decide anyway.

You are right, a square is a rectangle. It's a rectangle with equilateral sides.

But tis a rectangle.

Yep, all squares are rectangles.

I think someone mentioned this further up, but whether or not an oval counts as an oblong depends on whether you are using british english or american english as far as I know.

In british english an oblong is defined as a non square rectangle basically, so under this definition an oval is not an oblong. However, I have also seen an oblong defined as a shape with length longer than width, therefore an oval would count as an oblong as it would be an elongated circle.

In practise I think people most often use oblong to define a non square rectangle though (certainly in the UK anyway!).

I am a Maths coordinator, in school we say that a square is a special rectangle. Your son is right. I would either speak to her in he nicest possible way or ask/help your son to prove it and send him back to school with the evidence.

Thanks all - he told dh he is going to ask about it today. Dh gave him instructions about not looking like a cocky arrogant so and so

He has challenged teachers before (last time over the correct use of an apostrophe - he was right) and it doesn't end well.

I'm actually quite that teachers still do this to children.

I used to hate it at school when I would correct a teacher and they'd humiliate me in front of the class (i was very shy and it didn't help my confidence at all)
but that was in the 80s, and I would have hoped that things had moved on since then!
seems not.
the teachers are basically punishing children for being conscientious and keen to learn.

do let us know how it goes with your DS today :)

porn, had that teacher actually read Catch22? How could they have missed the humour - it's not exactly subtle!

Your DS is cleverer than his teacher Not sure you should rush to point that out though.

My parents took me out of one school because they had a similar error on a poster up on the wall (I was in reception).

that's good to know brown mouse, none of my KS3 (all abilities) have ever done this and are often quite shcoked that I am challenging what they have done at primary.

"the teachers are basically punishing children for being conscientious and keen to learn." yes it seems that way from many threads I've seen (as well as the experience of my DSCs) :(

I've never had that experience though. In primary, secondary (grammar) and my bog standard FE college, I was always praised for (apologies, I hate this phrase) 'thinking outside the box' or challenging something I felt was wrong or simply asking more about something. In particular my psychology A level teacher really liked me because I was often arguing with him :o he was shamelessly biased towards psychoanalysis, but I picked holes in it whenever he stated something as a given, and I know he appreciated it because it showed I was engaging with the lesson - I wasn't just writing it down without thinking.

It is so sad that other children don't seem to get this. It is vital to bounce ideas around, to query, to debate. That IS education. Not just parroting one word answers according to the syllabus.

I got marked down when I wrote that 999 was the largest number you could write with 3 digits. Bloody teacher even took trouble to patronise me for getting such an easy question 'wrong' I was 11 at the time. Now I am much older and have a maths degree. AND I WAS RIGHT. Bitch.

Ooh that feels better.
Seriously . say something. I carried that a long time.

how on earth did she think that was wrong????

I used to be in an am dram soc and we performed "Twelfth Night" for a class of young women who were in the local Youth Offenders Institute: the staff told them that they must NOT laugh because it was "SHAKESPEARE"!!

So if the teacher wanted two rectangles with an 8cm perimiter, but wouldn't accept a 2x2 rectangle, what else is there apart from 3x1??

perimeter even.