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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

to point out to the teacher that a square is a rectangle?

216 replies

GooseyLoosey · 09/05/2011 15:11

Part of ds's homework was to draw on a grid 2 rectangles with a perimetre of 8cm. He drew a 3x1 oblong and a 2x2 square.

Aside from the fact these were the only possible shapes without using 1/2 squares, the teacher marked his homework as incorrect as a square was not a rectangle.

Ds (who is a perfectionist) read this and was not at all happy. He shouted "it is, I know it is, it is. Mummy, I'm right".

Would I be unreasonable to tell ds to ask the teacher why a square is not a rectangle? Or are we completely wrong and squares and rectangles are mutually exclusive?

(PS - I really don't expect teachers to always be right - God knows I am not but this teacher is the school's maths co-ordinator).

OP posts:

WriterofDreams · 09/05/2011 16:54

BTW I'm a teacher and I can tell you that he most definitely will need to know that a square is a rectangle later on, probably in year 6, especially if he's doing SATs as this is just the type of slippery question they ask to test level 5 knowledge. I totally and utterly disagree with watering down maths concepts to make it "easier" for children - in my experience it just confuses them. The same goes for science. I was asked by one class to explain atomic structure and I went ahead and did it - they may not have fully understood it but they were completely fascinated and it was far better and more interesting than just saying "oh you don't need to know that" which is rude and dismissive IMO.

Ria28 · 09/05/2011 17:08

Haven't read the thread so sorry for x-posts.

In primary you're normally taught about squares and rectangles as separate things. In secondary you're taught that squares and oblongs are different things, and both are rectangles. I assume the teacher was sticking to the primary school definition and thought your ds was confused.

TheCoalitionNeedsYou · 09/05/2011 17:09

A square is a rectangle with all the sides the same length.

nickelbabe · 09/05/2011 17:15

the best way to put it forward is for your DS to photocopy where he got the information from, and present it to the teacher with his homework to be remarked.

All he has to do is say that he has researched it, and has enclosed a definition of a rectangle.

when I was his age, I would not have stood for a teacher telling me I was wrong when I knew I was right (that might have been a failing, because I didn't do tactful....)

Original poster

GooseyLoosey · 09/05/2011 17:16

Senua - no correct answer was given.

Goblinchild - I would love it if you or someone like you who encouraged wonder and thinking was his teacher.

Ds probably will mention it. It won't help him and I told him that I would mention it (basically to save him from looking cocky and arrogant), but he won't be able to stop himself!

OP posts:

Insomnia11 · 09/05/2011 17:19

Thanks marcopront.

So what the teacher should have said is that she wanted two oblongs, not two rectangles. A 1 by 3 and a 3 by 1.

I can see why the OP's son would have wanted to make one a square!

I'd write a note in the homework book, under where the teacher marked it, saying the instructions weren't very clear and what DS did is correct according to the instructions.

hanaka88 · 09/05/2011 17:20

A square is a rectangle!!! I learnt it during my teacher training. An oblong is a rectangle with 2 long sides and 2 short sides

Original poster

GooseyLoosey · 09/05/2011 17:22

ds did consider doing a 3x1 and a 1x3 rectangle. However, the intructions said to do "two different shapes" and ds said that this "would be the same shape rotated 90 degrees - not a different shape".

OP posts:

MaryBS · 09/05/2011 17:23

As many have already said, your son is right. Incidently my 2 (now aged 9 and 11) were taught that a square is a special sort of rectangle.

As for children correcting their elders, I am always happy for my children to teach me something I didn't know. To be defensive about children knowing the right answer is ridiculous. Reminds me of my doctor when I self-diagnosed in pregnancy, he wasn't happy, but if I hadn't pushed it, he'd have fobbed me off, and I could have been left with a dead baby .

StewieGriffinsMom · 09/05/2011 17:24

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

juuule · 09/05/2011 17:25

Can't an oblong also be an oval?

nickelbabe · 09/05/2011 17:26

not sure about that - an oblong is a rectangle where there are two longer sides, whereas an oval tapers at each end, so the sides aren't always parallel.

Goblinchild · 09/05/2011 17:27

If she wanted 3x1 and 1x3 then she's a twerp because that is the same rectangle in a different orientation.
That would get a 'Nice try but...' from me.
Surely the wonder and interest bit is what keeps most teachers going?
I can't think of a single teacher in my school that would be irritated at an excess of knowledge, even if you have to stop them in mid flow and tell them the discussion can continue at lunchtime. Because sometimes you can't let a lesson be derailed.

Original poster

GooseyLoosey · 09/05/2011 17:27

An oval has no right angles. An oblong has 4. This is much more interesting than my work (which actually says a lot about my work!).

OP posts:

Goblinchild · 09/05/2011 17:28

Yes, an oblong can be an oval, but now we are getting into the realms of the weird.

Original poster

GooseyLoosey · 09/05/2011 17:29

Goblin, I cannot think of a single teacher in ds's school who welcomes his thirst for knowledge. Apart from the time where he taught the teachers how to programme in scratch and demonstrated making lego move (as they were thinking about doing it in school), his knowledge has never been encouraged.

OP posts:

Original poster

GooseyLoosey · 09/05/2011 17:30

Ooh - must go and look up oblong - how interesting.

OP posts:

Goblinchild · 09/05/2011 17:31

I have two odd interesting children myself and have always valued the distinctive over the mundane. What are his secondary choices looking like?

TheCoalitionNeedsYou · 09/05/2011 17:31

GoblinChild - Not in Euclidian geometries though?

senua · 09/05/2011 17:33

This gets worse! What do you mean 'no correct answer was given'.
What is the point of homework if not to prove to the teacher that either
-you know your stuff, or
-you don't know your stuff and need a re-teach or re-explain.

Marking something wrong without giving the correct answer (or a clue to it) is a waste of everyone's time.

Original poster

GooseyLoosey · 09/05/2011 17:35

Goblin - not great tbh. The 2 choices are very large schools which are OK but not likely to have any time for "individuals" (or geeky nerds depending on your preferred terminology).

OP posts:

BellaBearisWideAwake · 09/05/2011 17:35

So late to this but couldn't stop myself replying! A square IS a rectangle. Am a maths teacher.

A rectangle is also a parallelogram.

I do a great lesson on quadrilaterals every year!

Original poster

GooseyLoosey · 09/05/2011 17:35

Actually senua, you make a good point. Perhaps I should ask what the answer to her otherwise impossible question was.

OP posts:

Goblinchild · 09/05/2011 17:39

'GoblinChild - Not in Euclidian geometries though?'

Don't ask me, I'm a historian and and English specialist. Please don't think I'm pretending to be educated by your children, I learn something new on a daily basis. Sometimes Geometry, sometimes Pokemon.

senua · 09/05/2011 17:50

Perhaps that is your way in, Goosey. You start by asking 'what was the right answer?' and then incorporate '... but a square is a rectangle' into the conversation.

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