to ask what people's impressions are of academics/the job role

[anotheracademic]

I see there are quite a few of us and also see from the recent money and salary threads how much people are earning, working conditions and qualifications .
Im wondering what non academics impressions are of what we do, what they think/thought we earn and what we are like.

My impression of academics:

I am a non-academic working with academics in a research centre. My professorial colleagues are well paid (£45-50,000) compared to other university staff* (but probably could do better in other industries). On the whole I think they work hard during term time and often have heavy teaching/supervising workloads in addition to their research activities. They all seem very committed to their work and clearly have a huge amount of job satisfaction. On top of their salaries they earn extra money from publishing, external examining, and the occasional bit of 'consultancy' etc., although some of the amounts concerned will be paltry.

Perks:
Foreign travel - this year the four professors I work with have visited Mauritius, China, Brazil, Australia, Japan, Norway, Finland, New Zealand and America between them.

They have 35 days (7 weeks!) annual leave in addition to bank holidays, and a week at Christmas when the university is closed.

Job satisfaction.
They can wear whatever they want, eg. an ancient t-shirt advertising cat food with a pair of old shorts and people will describe them as 'a character'.
They get to 'work at home' a lot. I'm sure some of this time IS spent working, but being at home means money can be saved on commuting costs, holiday childcare, etc., which other employees just have to suck up.

The junior researchers seem to have a much tougher time of it and, as others have mentioned, have short fixed-term posts with little job security, which is invariably stressful.

How positive or negative your experience of academia is will probably depend on the personality of your Dean or Head of School/Faculty.

*If you think academics are poorly paid, you should try being a Grade 4 administrator or a member of caretaking/catering staff in a university. Living on £16-22K in the south east is no joke! Sorry, I know it's irrelevant to this thread, but other non-academic university staff will consider academics to be well paid, which no doubt helps to foster the 'them 'vs' us' mentality which seems so prevalent in higher education.

I'd agree with Siasl that I'd judge an academic by the University they worked at. I'd assume an academic at Oxbridge was pretty impressive until proved otherwise (and chances are that I wouldn't be in an intellectual position to really challenge them). I wouldn't assume the same about an academic at the University of Luton.

I dont think the press helps the public's view of academics with their publication of "no shit sherlock" research projects- eg a study by the University of Nowhere showed that poor people have less money. (joke, but you know what I mean). The press also tends to publish the really badly controlled studies which scratches a "social itch" for sensationalist reading.

I know my dad (former University lecturer- briefly post PhD) feels sorry for pharmacology/pharmaceutical researchers now because they have so little control over their research as so much is funded by large companies with agendas who then "own" the research.

Overall though, I think knowledge for the sake of knowledge is important, but as I think there are far too many "Universities" in the UK, there are also too many academics. It would be worth having fewer and making salaries for the really good ones comparable to the US.

My father is an emeritus professor at one of the UK's better universities.

We/he had a pretty decent life, much foreign travel, decent educations, always a better quality of guest.

Your point OP?

I guess we now have many lesser specimens......

I'm an academic (senior lecturer) in the humanities and slightly bemused by / envious of these stories of exotic travel destinations. In my field, we have a tiny individual budget for travel and research expenses (£500 per annum). Most of us end up spending a minium of £2-3k out of our own salaries each year on travel, books, publications costs (illustrations are involved and costly), conference fees and other research expenses since there is just no other funding available for these things. The story of someone staying in a 5-star hotel in Malaysia astonished me since institutions have a strict cap on overnight costs, which certainly doesn't come anywhere near the 5-star category. Although I know that our Vice-Chancellor isn't subject to these rates and is always jetting around the world (he's away more often than not) and staying in 5-star hotels.

namechanged
Will read all the interim pages later (have only read first page so far...)
DH is an academic at a "good" university. He is lucky in that he has a permanent position. This is unusual.

He never seems to stop working. Every evening, most of the weekend (as well as weekdays, obviously). There are so many calls on his time: research, mentoring students, teaching, admin, writing, applying for funding, justifying funding...

And because he likes to be heavily involved at home, too, this means he just never stops. At all. I worry it'll become too much one day.

Luckily, so far, he has proved to be someone that has almost too much energy, needs little sleep, and thrives on it.
Also, I do think, although the pay is crap (comparatively), he is priveliged really to be doing something he loves. And I think he is a workaholic/ obsessive by nature, so possibly would've been like this whatever he did.

I left academia, because I just couldn't see that it could be compatible with having children. I'd seen plenty of people that had found this to be the case. A real shame. And the reason, I guess, that (in my field at least) it's still pretty male-dominated.

spiderslegs there was no "point". It was a just question to see what other's thought. As explained throughout. Sorry it that went a bit sideways but thats what I intended anyway.

With regards to the place - I think you will get your top notch at top ranking Uni's but keep in mind some of us are restricted by where our family are (husband) and which Uni's offer the area of expertise you teach in.

spiders I bet your Dad didnt have to work in the conditions that were described by a thread on here the other day. I wish i could rememember what it was called I hope he didnt anyway, Id be mortified if someone as high up as that had to.:(

do not forget the worry about securing funding for research projects to ;(and then the cutbacks as well .Long hours when papers need writing

oh and not everyone gets long breaks either though friend does compared to the rest of the country ( in the Usa where 14 days a year is normal he is lucky that he gets 28 but he works long days and some weekendd and evenings and he is at a high level

pinksky I loved your post (several pages back). Reminds me that once a wonderful lecturer of mine started his lecture still with his bike helmet on.

My impression of academics, having completed an undergrad degree last July = overworked, unappreciated, overly criticised, underpaid, under too much pressure, and inhibited by a whole heap of funding problems, hassle from outside the department etc. Oh, and constantly taking abuse/sifting through downright rude emails from disgruntled students. (Although we didn't have enough books/resources and they didn't/couldn't help, and it was frustrating.)

Also: brilliant thinkers. I know, I know, that's the point, but they had a way of thinking that just mined several seams deeper than anything we could throw at them. It was obvious they weren't just hoovers of knowledge and (for the most part) they had already arrived where they were for a jolly good reason.

When i did my undergrad, back in the 80's , we had one guy who did a whole lecture with a owl on his arm
Yes, an owl..no idea why.

sister and BIL are academics. They can afford a tiny (I mean tiny) flat.
BIL has to work abroad for the next 2 years - not what they want.
No job security at all.
Very competitive as few make it past the post-doc stage.
My own institution recently discarded a number of senior staff due to not enough recent publications (ignoring other contributions) so constant pressures.
IME it may be possible to take annual leave but they never do.
I am doing a higher degree part time but am not an academic - admire those who can, though.

DH is an academic (permanent contract at a RG university). He is very committed, and, for the most part, loves his work. He eats, sleeps and breathes it.

Downsides are relatively poor pay, heavy workload, lots of politics, uncertain research funding etc etc. Upsides are a certain amount of autonomy and flexibility.

Friends and family still assume that he only works in term time, and also assume that he earns more than he does.

at idea of 35 holidays plus bank holidays plus lots of working at home. Just because we get them on paper doesn't mean we ever get to take them.

spiderslegs Lesser specimens . You sound lovely. What is it you do so we can judge you and decide whether you fit within the lesser specimen category or not?

The funding elite institutions idea. Well firstly who decides what is elite. Secondly this already happens as they get the majority of the funding. Thirdly how would anyone ever develop their academic career if there were so few places - would really be a case of the elite teaching the elite funding the elite. Which is actually true of many places anyway.

I think of all the assumptions about what it is that academics do and don't do (although it has to be said that on the whole, the perception based on this thread is pretty positive) I find the idea that only academics in RG universities are worthy of their salaries the most insidious and offensive of all. Generally speaking, working conditions are harder, the students more challenging to teach, research support poorer. But as others have said, not everyone is flexible as to location, and most of us do actually have a commitment to education for its own sake. In my own field I would say that the best people are actually not based in RG universities and the jobs market has been so tight for so long that many excellent people are to be found in all sorts of institutions. One of the problems is that very senior people apply for entry level jobs in RG universities on the hope (often borne out in reality) that they will be offered a Readership or similar. Having said that, trying to recruit in the humanities at a senior level is not an edifying experience.

My point is, after all that, that excellent work is being done across the sector and I can't abide this institutional snobbery (possibly because I am endlessly the victim of it :o)

drivingmisscrazy: 'One of the problems is that very senior people apply for entry level jobs in RG universities on the hope (often borne out in reality) that they will be offered a Readership or similar.'

We have a serious issue with this in my dept - it's very hard, as a junior researcher, to compete when this happens.

I've come back to academia after a different career, so I'm old enough to have friends who are now senior academics. Morale is at an all time low wrt pressure, funding and politics. I am getting back in while many of my peers are bailing out.

You can't specify the 'elite' institution so easily - in my filed, the top tanked dept is a uni so new it is newer than the officially 'new' places. You get niche specialisms all over the place. It does also seem to me that teaching is valued and taken more seriously in some of the less 'elite' places.

'Not just hoovers of knowledge' - I love that - very apt - must remember it.

Thank you Viola

Peppa

Now shall get on with the next paper or write fundraising letters for the PTA....?

I agree about teaching being valued less at some of the RG institutions - as I mentioned earlier several academics were made redundant here because of their focus on teaching over research. Students were outraged at some of their best lecturers and tutors being fired, especially with tuition fees being increased dramatically soon! It didn't even make sense to me because surely there's still the same amount of teaching to be done, so the remaining staff will have less time to devote to their research.

The flip side I suppose is that at some of the newer institutions you have to focus on teaching and getting good student feedback, and on recruitment and pass rates in order to keep your courses running and your department in existence! Often at the expense of your research and citation count, which in turn affects your career prospects as a researcher. I don't think academia is ever an easy or secure career, wherever you are.

It does also seem to me that teaching is valued and taken more seriously in some of the less 'elite' places.

Definitely. Oxford and Cambridge, for example, are not primarily teaching Unis. When I was at Cambridge, most of the academics had little interest in the undergrads, not that I really blame them given the attitude of most. I suppose they just really wanted to get on with their research and not have to supervise 18 yr olds who just wanted to get a 2:1 so they could go into the City. I think that's why they have such short terms- it's all the academics can stand

It is the way research is funded. They like the researchers because they bring in money for the university. I think they think that the students will come whatever which to an extent they will. However I think things will be changing now the students personally have to pay more.

Do you mean oxbridge has short terms thebride or everyone? Because if you mean everyone I dare you to come teach the first semester of other unis - 12 weeks of teaching in a row. Most lose the will to live by week 6.

acinonyx - now, now - both at once. Multitask woman!