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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to struggle to understand why SAT's are such a bloody big deal?

134 replies

BloodySATStakingovertheworld · 03/05/2011 22:43

Have namechanged.

My dd is part of a sports team. They have amazingly qualified to represent their school in a National Final of a competition.

Anyway, to cut a long story short, the competition has clashed with the children starting their SAT's and the school and most of the other parents aren't interested in the slightest in the competition - they're only interested in the SAT's and how the children should be focussed on them.

The headteacher even picked the children out in assembly and whilst they were waiting to be told 'congratulations' for qualifying or 'good luck' for the final, the bloody headteacher said to make sure they take their SAT books to the comp so that they can schedule in plenty of revision and whatever happens at the comp they're to make sure they have an early night ready for the SAT's next morning Shock No good luck, kiss my arse or anything! Angry

Some of the parents are refusing to bring their children to the competition until just before they're due compete (so no preparation time) because they want them to do more SAT's revision first. I think this is sooo unfair to the rest of the team. The preparation time is essential to the comp and it's really letting their team-mates down.

I'm so cross at the school (and the other parents!).

Yes, I know SAT's are important to the school, but they're not the be-all and end-all! These children are representing their school at a National Fucking Competition and haven't even been told GOOD LUCK!!

I'm stunned, I really am.

Dd has worked really hard in school btw and has done extra revision classes as well as lots of extra revision throughout the Easter Hols. But she's worked really hard with her team-mates too! ...and surely that's just as important?

AIBU? Because I'm mightily fucking pissed off on dd's behalf Sad

OP posts:
seeker · 04/05/2011 09:05

I keep coming back to the point that if parents didn't judge schools by SATS results - and they do, you can see that in loads of threads on here about primary admissions - "Oh help, little Johnny's not got a place at the good school in the town but at the crappy one - whatever shall I do?" - then schools could make less of a bit deal about them.

I am prepared to bet that many people who say they hate SATS and don't want their children to take them would think about them very differently if they were offered a school where there were no level 5s in Year 6 SATS and where the majority didn;t even get level 4s!

You can;t have it both ways!

Rosebud05 · 04/05/2011 19:51

Out of interest, seeker, do you know a school or schools with those results, because no level 5s and less than 50% level 4 would be quite unusual, wouldn't it (may have got this wrong of course).

seeker · 04/05/2011 20:32

I don;t - I was exagerating for effect! But parents do look at SATS results when choosing schools, you only have to read threads on here about "good" and "crappy" schools to see that!

echt · 04/05/2011 20:34

Another reason for hating SATs, from the teachers' point of view is that the inflated attainment as a result of teaching to the test leads to unrealistic expectations. There is an expectation, made absolutely clear in my last school, that the SAT score was an accurate predictor of later progression, and the teachers were held to account for it.

I was made to explain why a student with a level 6 at Year 9 did not get an A in Year 11, even though I said they'd get a C from day one (not to the student, who I encouraged to improve). The SAT tested skills which were not those of GCSE. In addition, this student thought he didn't have to work, and he didn't have the spark to get the high grades without it. By the way, not one of the student's teachers differed from my opinion.

But the SAT was right and I was wrong.

hockeyforjockeys · 04/05/2011 20:46

I agree seeker - it drives me mad when I see those threads. Having worked in schools who only get average results because of high levels of EAL/SEN/social problems it makes me so cross that many would see them as 'crappy'. This is despite the fact that I know from supply work I've done that teaching is no better in the 'amazing' schools, they just have nice middle class intakes and won't support SEN. It's the same with the obsession with being in an outstanding school, you will only get it if your SATS results are extremely high (except in a few cases, and these are the schools that truly deserve to be outstanding!). You want the amazing school, you'll have to put up with these ridiculous performances 8 years down the line.

Feenie · 04/05/2011 21:04

AND Ive even known kids made to resit a KS2 SAT paper when it wasn't upto expected par, the following day.

This would result in a maladministration charge, and the potential sacking of a headteacher.

you get marks for showing working which does not work well for kids who have a feel for numbers and calculate in atypical untaught ways

Marks for working are only given if the answer is wrong. So child getting an answer right would be able to work it out in whatever manner they chose. And are actively encouraged to do so, actually.

seeker · 04/05/2011 21:12

Glad you picked up on that, feenie - I tried down thread but was ignored!

clam · 04/05/2011 21:14

"you get marks for showing working which does not work well for kids who have a feel for numbers and calculate in atypical untaught ways."
Not exactly. If a child has a "feel" for numbers and gets the correct answer, then they will get 2 marks for it, regardless of their method. They don't even have to show a method; even if they do it in their head, as long as they get it right they'll get the marks.
Showing relevant workings out only gains a mark if they've made a little error and ended up with the wrong answer but their method was good and should have worked. In which case, they can pick up one mark. No method shown plus the wrong answer means no mark at all.
I'm talking about KS2 maths SATs here.

clam · 04/05/2011 21:16

Oops. Cross-posted with feenie there.

Feenie · 04/05/2011 21:18

You explained it better than me, clam. Smile

I guess stranger things have been reported to the GTC in the past, seeker, so it does happen! Never worth it though, I always wonder what the hell they were thinking. Confused

clam · 04/05/2011 21:22

Do they actually follow up complaints though, feenie? A former colleague of mine used to mark English SATs years ago, and saw the most blatant instances of cheating - from formulaic stories duplicated by whole classes, including names of characters, to spelling tests where wildly wrong answers were badly rubbed out and miraculously corrected. She reported such schools, yet nothing was done.

Feenie · 04/05/2011 21:27

There were apparently 252 maladministration charges brought in 2009....and there are regular stories in the media describing heads cheating. You used read them on the disciplinary hearing part of the GTC website aswell, but I can't find that bit any more Confused

CurrySpice · 04/05/2011 21:29

My DD has been told that any child who is off sick in Y6 SATS week will receive a visit from the HT to ascertain if they are really too ill to come in Hmm

Bring it on I say! I would love to face down the HT over that one Angry

BoattoBolivia · 04/05/2011 21:34

I had a child come in to do Sats in year 6 with a temperature! I tried to send her home and told her it wasn't worth it, but she insisted. She said she'd worked all year and she wanted to get her results. I felt really bad, but she still got her level 5!!!

seeker · 04/05/2011 21:35

I would put money on that being a head teacherly joke/threat. Don;t believe everything your children tell you happens at school!

CurrySpice · 04/05/2011 21:37

seeker I do realise that! I laughed when DD told me and have told her that it would never happen and that I decide if she goes in, not her HT

No matter how much I would love it to ;) just to wipe the floor with him :o

nomorepets · 04/05/2011 21:45

sats are just for the school when i did'nt push my dd the school was not happy i just wanted her to learn not to be pressurised.She is now a qualified electrician and now at uni studying electronic engineering all this with hardly a positive comment from any parents evening. somewhere along the way her ability was not spotted and developed by the school system but she suceeded despite this.

psiloveyou · 04/05/2011 21:53

DSs school take SATs very seriously. There have been after school lessons every Friday for the last term.
Next week the children are being encouraged to be at school for 8.00pm each day. They will have a SATs breakfast followed by an hour of excercise and fun to motivate them.
It has all been made loads of fun though and ds is actually really looking forward to it.
I have told him to do his best but not worry about it. I don't think they are worth anything.

Madsometimes · 04/05/2011 22:08

Sats start on Monday 9 May. The competition is on the day before, so Sunday 8 May?

Of course your dd should take part, you must be very proud of her. There really is not much that a child can revise for with Sats. It's just English and maths, and is based on everything that has been learnt in KS2. Last gasp revision will not do any good. Maybe when science was part of the tests rote learning was useful, but not now.

I have a Y6 dd too, and she is getting stressed. I keep telling her that the tests are designed to test her teacher, but I don't think she believes me.

bruffin · 04/05/2011 22:23

"I keep telling her that the tests are designed to test her teacher, but I don't think she believes me."

Sorry but by doing that you are probably putting more pressure on her. She will want to do well for her teacher.

Madsometimes · 05/05/2011 09:19

No I'm not. She does want to do well for herself, and she also wants to please her teacher, that is true. However, what is wrong with her knowing the truth. No one asks what Sats levels you got on your CV. Most schools do not use sats for setting. Their only purpose is to form data for league tables which are used to judge schools.

Her teacher was not too pleased when I told her that I had said this to my dd. I admit that it was insensitive and I should have kept my mouth shut, and I know I was wrong. However, her teacher should not be stressing out 10 and 11 year olds just because she is under pressure.

Original poster
BloodySATStakingovertheworld · 05/05/2011 22:33

Thanks for all your replies and for the good luck wishes for dd Grin

I'm sure dd will try her best in both the comp and her SATs.

Oh, and she won't be taking revision books to the comp. As far as I'm concerned, last-minute cramming can be saved for her GCSE's ...

OP posts:
hobnobsaremyfavourite · 05/05/2011 22:35

I love living in Wales!!!

jasminejo24 · 06/05/2011 00:45

im 20 and i remember when i got to high school they said sats were only really to help sort kids into the right classes so do bad in your maths sat and you will end up in a low level set for your maths gcses where you will be likely to get a D at GCSE.
however do not despair after initially being in low set maths, if your teacher thinks you can do better youll be transfered into normal maths class and if you do well there you get transfered to high maths.
i hated my set 1 (there were 5 sets 1 high to 5 low) maths teacher, unless you were einstein he would ignore you so i asked to transfer to set 2 where i loved the lessons and got a B in maths gcse and an A in maths coursework.

in short sats are only a ruff guide of your childs abilities. your child will be moved between sets in the first few weeks till both the child and teacher are happy that they can learn to the best of there abilities

clam · 06/05/2011 18:20

If SATs judge anything/one, it's the school, not the poor old Year 6 teacher. Much of Year 6 can, in some schools, be taken up with fire-fighting, i.e trying to plug gaps from earlier years. If it can't be done, they get the blame. No wonder so few people are willing to go to Year 6 to teach.

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