To wonder why anyone buys that 'Growing Up' milk stuff?

[bubbleymummy]

No one expects to get their iron content from milk - you get it from the food you eat alongside it (although you shouldn't really drink milk alongside a meal anyway because calcium inhibits iron absorption) so why would you spend money on this product? Does anyone on MN buy it? If so - why?

boysrock it's not the same as followon. It's introduced later- as an alternative to cow's milk.

thanks for that bubbleymummy, but as I still have a box of the stuff in my cupboard I can assure you I do know which product I am talking about.

"what wrong with giving them water?"
"He'll scream like a banshee till he gets milk"

My son too. For hours if necessary. Very pleasant, especially on a flight

Interesting that handy bottles of normal milk are not available. Why not? Perhaps once the cost of the plastic packaging, advertising and marketing is factored in, long-life cows milk would be more expensive than the Apatimil / C&G product due to the fact that the dairy industry just isn't set up to compete with the baby milk substitute companies.

They need to invest heavily and cleverly in their products because they have something to gain from the permitted advertising of follow-on formula as it may influence people to use it from the start.

bubbley - perhaps you should start a new thread and invite those who use growing up milk to post their reasons and ask you if their reasons are acceptable or not.

Or to stop BF sooner than they would have due to scaremongering about iron levels.

I buy toddler milk btw, posted as Ninx earlier on the thread and name-change randomly because my DC have medical conditions which make them easily identifiable to the many HCP involved. I didn't expect to return to this thread and couldn't be arsed to change back.

*What - that there's no imperative that children learn to eat a balanced diet, because there's an expensive, synthetic product on the market that negates the need for parents to actually address their children's poor eating with any sort of urgency?

I think it's very worrying that so many children in the uk are fussy to the point that they aren't eating well enough to sustain normal good health.

You'd think that children's diets would have improved wouldn't you - given the choices we now have and the fact that (as a nation) we have a higher disposable income compared to our parents generation.*

Excellent post Spudulika. This is what baffles me as well, that parents think they are doing their best by their children by giving them a synthetic product instead of addressing their eating habits. It really can be done. My DD1 has always been a little fussy, but we are tough with her and she eats well now.

Sometimes though addressing their eating habits has to be done whilst still maintaining some basic level of nutrition.
How far do you go when trying to break fussiness and you can see the weight dropping off said child.

I would have agreed with you Marianne prior to ds3 but when you have a child that a) can survive on crumbs and b) will not eat anything proffereddo what do you do?

I have to say he is eating better now, but the follow on milk was reassuring to have in whilst getting to this point.

Don't forget on the whole we are still talking about very young children here and personally I think it's better that a parent uses growing up milk to give themselves peace of mind they are getting SOME goodness whilst trying to tackle eating problems rather than everyone getting stressed about it and the child taking in very little.

Ideally all children would reach the age of 1 and have a perfect diet and eat whatever was put in front of them, but as we dont live in an ideal world then growing up milk does have a place.

The whole "it wasn't around 20 years ago" argument is pointless, things change and we get new inventions - doesn't mean they have to be bad though!

Sirzy my son reached the age of one and had a "perfect" diet until then. Exclusive BM and home-made organic first foods followed quickly by BLW because that is when I first came here and read Aitch's blog.

Before the age of two he became desperately ill following MMR and his diet / bowels have never been the same. It can happen to anyone's perfectly-fed baby. It happened to mine.

Sirzy that last post of mine should not have been addressed to you, sorry!

Boysrock, I can assure you that follow on milk and growing up milk are two different things. Follow on milk is a 'heavier' formula. Growing up milk is for older children who have moved on to cow's milk.

Actually, I don't think that follow on milk is 'heavier'. I asked the dietician that recommended ds move on to follow on milk, whether it would fill him up too much for him to take more purees, and she said that the only difference between follow-on and first milk is that it is higher in certain nutrients and specifically iron.

bubbleymummy that appears to have been a slip on my part. I am talking about growing up milk. The one that is aimed at over 1yo. Does ds2 running about constitute an excuse?

"Ideally all children would reach the age of 1 and have a perfect diet"

A child doesn't need to have a 'perfect' diet to not need growing up milk. Very, very few children will eat everything put in front of them. Doesn't mean that the rest need or benefit from this product.

They simply need to have a normal diet! By which I mean, some protein, some plant based food, some starchy food and some fat.

And if a child is so fussy they're putting themselves at risk of malnutrition they need to see a paediatrician, not be given a synthetic product which facilitates continued disordered eating by taking all pressure off the parent to address it, while still allowing and even encouraging the child to eat badly (because a child who is getting their nutritional needs met by a synthetic product has less need to eat other foods).

Just in case anyone is unaware of the fact, ordinary cow's milk in a long life form is available in cartons from all major supermarkets.

As I understand it "follow-on" milk was developed specifically to get around the ban on advertising first infant milks. It is marketed as being suitable from six moths of age but I've seen a few ads for it showing babies in arms who are clearly much younger than that

It purports to have more iron so uneducated HCPs will recommend it as there is a concern about iron with BF babies BUT the iron in BM is much more bio-available, (gosh, years ago since I read all this stuff on Kellymom but it's there - and to be honest after four years I'm a bit meh about BF advocacy now ) and as long as the older baby is weaning well there is no need for it.

Cartons, seeker. Big ones. So for one drink you'd end up throwing most of it away if using it for out and about and have to take scissors with you or up to bed if like me you have a DC with SN. I'd be pretty nervous about that and certainly couldn't imagine blearily using them several times a night and not knocking the remainder of the carton all over the place even if DS didn't or stabbing snoring DH with scissors or something.

With the wastage once the carton is opened I'd imagine the price per drink to be pretty similar. But I would like to be able to buy cows milk in handy per drink portions.

so lets get this straight. It is being suggested that a short term problem such as a toddler going through a very fussy stage and not eating anywhere near a balanced diet should be dealt with by a paediatrician? Rather than a try a sensible short term solution whilst breaking that cycle before seeking paediatric review.

No wonder the nhs is at breaking point.

Exactly boysrock!

No - I think what we are saying is that a toddler going through a fussy stage should be dealt with by offering food. Which they will eventually eat. Because such a child is not going to suffer any ill effects - apart from maybe getting a bit hungry. But that a child who is not eating to such an extent that they are putting their health at risk should be dealt with my a paediatrician. And that such cases are incredibly, vanishingly rare.

Why do you need to take a carton of milk (of any size) with you when you go out with your children? You can buy (or you probably already have) a sippy cup that you can pour ordinary milk into! Most of them close firmly so the milk won't spill when it's being transported. We do this a lot when "out and about" with our DDs. And the milk doesn't go bad that quickly - or are you "out and about" all day with your children?

I think people just love the gimmickry of these individually portioned, packaged products that look nice and cost a lot.

Not at all boysrock. Temporary episodes of fussy eating can just be ignored.

If your child has a long term problem with eating that doesn't seem to resolve then you see a HV, or if it is severe and involves a child who's failing to thrive then you see a paediatrician.

Alternatively you can enable them to carry on eating badly by providing a significant part of their calorie intake from a processed synthetic drink with added vitamins.

And the NHS isn't quite at breaking point yet.

But will be in about 20 years time as today's fussy eaters enter adulthood.

Interesting about fussy eaters. I was born in 1971 and never liked meat. I eat a bit of chicken and fish now at almost forty but growing up nada, which really worried my parents. There were no alternative veggie foods, no soya products etc so my parents used common-sense and gave me protein via eggs and cheese.

At school I'd eat the potatoes and veg. And the carb portion was always potatoes in those days

@ Flamin. In the seventies my mum fed me some sort of biscuit from 8 days and cows milk alone from 6 weeks. If that was posted about now it would cause a mn meltdown.

similarly I was never malnourished or obese. Slightly anaemic which probably explains my obsession with iron intake, but otherwise no harm done.

Tbh I dont think the people feeding their dc growing up milk are the ones whose kids diets need worrying about as in the main it is used as a supplement rather than a substitute.

No the children that need worrying about are being fed takeaways most nights and a steady diet of fizzy sweets and crisps as the main meal. Unfortunately I have seen that happen.

You haven't seen full-strength Ribena routinely given to three month old babies because it fills them up cheaply? You don't live anywhere near me then boysrock!

LOL at MN meltdown. Was it this thread where someone was tempted to name-change and advocate carnation milk?

Now I know that this is AIBU but to be helpful I must recommend this book.

No magic solutions, no patronising advice but oh, sweet, sweet validation for anyone who has a child who just does not respond to the usual tricks of the parenting trade.

And I'll say it again. Anyone's perfectly exclusively BF and BLW baby can develop the problems that my DS, who was BF and BLW, now has. It's very easy to be complacent until you have such a child.