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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to stay away from PILs and keep LO away too

108 replies

takethisonehereforastart · 03/05/2011 17:32

This is a long one. For the past two years I have not been on good terms with my MiL and lately that has progressed to not being on good terms with FiL and one BiL as well. Since just before Christmas I have not seen them personally, which has meant they have not seen LO (just turned 2).

They have always been controlling, demanding and hard work. DH is the youngest of four and they grew up being told that if they ever upset their mother then they would be responsible for her mental breakdown. As the youngest (his siblings are 10, 8 and 6 years older than him), DH was at home with them alone when the siblings moved out (all at 16/17 years of age) so he bore the brunt of her smothering and guilt trips and as a now 30 year old he still reverts to little boy status in the company of his parents and is scared to upset them in any way.

The official story is that MiL is depressed but she has no medication or therapy for this and diagnosed herself. I have always found her to be hard work but I am the sort of person who tries to accommodate everyone and I felt sorry for her. For the first six years of our marriage I worked hard to keep MiL happy but in 2007 I lost our first baby (stillbirth, completely unexpected and devestating to us) and her behaviour took a very nasty turn. Eleven months later, in December 2007, I lost our second child (prematurity) and again was devestated, this time also seriously ill myself from an infection which almost killed me. Again her treatment of me deteriorated and still I tried hard with the relationship.

The recent breakdown in our relationship came just weeks after our LO born, when her latest piece of nastiness was the final straw.

So you get the idea of how she has been throughout our marriage I will list the things I can remember, as it shows how her treatment of me/us has always been strange and why I finally felt pushed too far. Some of this is down to FiL too he supports everything she says and does.

Pretended to forget my name right up to our wedding day. We met and married within just seven months so she claimed it was because she didn't know me very well. We saw her every weekend before the wedding because DH would travel from his base to see me/them and stayed at their house a lot.

Telling people at our engagement party that DH almost married someone else but decided to keep her as a one night stand when he found out she had children. He didn't actually know this woman, she was their friends daughter but he hadn't even met her. She saw his picture in his uniform and said she fancied him.

Told everyone that we had made a mistake about the date of our own wedding and brought it forward by one day. I had to contact everyone again to set them right.

She opened our gifts and cards at our wedding and took money and vouchers from them, "to keep them safe."

Told everyone I was pregnant but keeping it quiet until after the wedding. I wasn't.

Told everyone we had basically slapped her in the face by not cutting the wedding cake when she thought we should, despite her not saying anything to us about it.

Insisted on driving us to the airport for our honeymoon and then when we got there was bitching at us for taking up her time, then charging us petrol money. My dad was going to take us for free until she made her fuss.

Bringing a big knife with her for her first visit to our new house.

Coming to visit on a whim but not even letting us know they were on the way, never mind asking if they could come. Frequently. Saying they were only staying a night and then staying a week. Borrowing money because they couldn't afford the petrol to go home and would have to stay. Going home after a week and then phoning up within half an hour of getting there to say they were on the way back because they had argued with BiL and "needed a break."

Spreading rumours that my DH had cancer when he was in hospital having an infected cyst removed. Throwing a tantrum and calling me a bitch for not telling them their son was dying. Turning up to visit on the day he came home so we had to fuss over them instead of DH getting some rest and me fussing over him.

Phoning when we asked them not to. DH is in the forces and was away for six months just after we got married. We wanted a couple of days alone in peace when he came home and they called us fifteen times in one day. Every day, demanding to visit.

Calling me a slapper. Numerous abusive insults, casual nasty remarks. Snooping through personal letters and property when staying with us.

Telling strangers about my medical history (I had been treated as a young teen for epilepsy) and she was asking strangers if that meant I couldn't have children (non-existant baby not materialising after the wedding made them wonder.)

Ruining every Christmas and New Year with demands that we see her every day we were visiting for at least four hours at a time (both families live in the same town but mine had a bedroom for us and we had to sleep on the floor PILS). Crying if we didn't see her every day. Made threats. Turned up at my parents house shouting abuse. Tried to run DH down in their car. Lying about us to the rest of the family. We did try to see them as much as possible but also wanted to visit other people and have some time alone too. My parents worked all through Christmas so it's not like we saw them more.

Treating us like their personal bank, borrowing money but not paying it back.

Lying to us about our SIL (her other DIL) on a number of occasions and caused bad feeling between DH and his brother because DH believed the lies and thought badly of SIL. BiL set us straight on what had happened and then DH was embarrassed. No idea why they lied or what they thought they would gain from it.

Expecting us to pay off BiLs drug dealer (BiL is an alcoholic and a drug user). Expecting us to have BiL hide at our house when the wrong people were after him. Expecting us to let BiL ring up and abuse us and not mind. Wanted us to lend BiL money he doesn't pay back. Invited Bil and his equally alcoholic drug using girlfriend to LO's first birthday party and wondered why we objected to them being drunk and smoking cannabis in our front garden.

Cut the cake at LO's birthday party and ate it before we had lit the candle and sung to him. He didn't care but we did (having waited so long to have a child and celebrate a birthday after our losses - maybe PFB of us but I think we were allowed for one day on his first birthday in the circumstances).

There's a lot more but this is already very long and this is the worst.

Three days after our son was stillborn my MiL asked me if it still hurts to give birth if the baby is already dead. She argued about the time our son was born and demanded to know if we were going to try again.

Two days later she was ranting to us about SiL's (DH's sister) mortgage and how unhappy they were that she was financially struggling. Didn't mention our son or ask how we were. Stole the information for the bereavement midwife and rang her to ask how long we might be feeling sorry for ourselves and then spending an hour talking about how her mother had died the year before and how she coped with that (she was in a terrible state and the family rallied around a lot) so we should cope with this.

Rang us the day before our sons funeral and told DH off for sounding miserable on the phone.

Caused a fuss on Mothers Day and Fathers Day that year because we didn't send them cards. My parents understood why we ignored the day.

Declared themselves bankrupt then took offence at DH saying they perhaps should give up the credit cards. We bailled them out the first time by buying their house, which meant they could pay off £77,000 in debts but the second time they were £17,000 in debt and happy about being bankrupt. Then claimed that they didn't feel they were made welcome in our house because they still looked at it as being theirs and moaned that when we redecorated it made them feel unwanted.

I lost our daughter. They told everyone about a totally made up medical condition they thought I had.

They told everyone I had a late termination because of this made up condition, even though the reason our daughter was premature was because a lorry rammed into the back of my car at a red light and I went into premature labour and picked up an infection in my placenta.

Telling people my former treatment for epilepsy was to blame for the babies dying.

Then they kept ringing to tell me about cases in the news of child cruelty and the debate about termination limits, even though I found it all very upsetting.

They rang me six weeks after my daugher was born, which also happened to be our stillborn son's first birthday, to tell me how excited they were that SIL was having a c-section the next day and they would have their first granddaughter after three grandsons. Actually my daugher was their first granddaughter and our stillborn son was their fourth grandson.

When I reminded them it was his birthday MiL said "I forgot about that" and then proceeded to tell me why our children don't count as real grandchildren in the same way.

Telling me it was okay to put a photo of my daughter up because she "doesn't look...well, she is still family I suppose. I know she was going to say something nasty. I have a feeling it was "she doesn't look dead."

Looking at my daughters photo and asking if she was born with all of her face. Of course she was, you can see her whole face in the photo for a start. It was actually at this point that I cut contact with them because they started to spread more lies than ever about me and complain about me to DH. They felt unwelcome in our house. They couldn't understand why what they had said might upset me. Then they denied ever saying it even though DH was there for a lot of it.

Disowned us both between christmas and new year, telling DH that he was a tiny part of their lives that was over now, that we were users who took them for mugs, that we thought we were better than them and that they were sick of us and finished with us both.

Lied about BiL having a rare blood disease but refusing to say what it was, when in reality he had taken an amphetamine overdose. They made us think DH and LO were at risk from this blood disorder, which they kept saying might kill BiL and we even wondered if this was why our stillborn son died. DH's cousin also lost a child to stillbirth at the same time our LO was born so it made it seem as though it could be due to something that runs in the family. We were worried for over a week before SiL told us the truth.

Lying about me to family members, threatening me, stalking me, parking outside the house to watch me, kerb crawling after me as I walked home with LO, writing to me to harrass me, making phone calls up to 20 times a day, picking LO up by his neck, keeping some personal things DH had stored at their house against my wishes, refusing to give those things back unless I did as I was told, stealing some of the things that were stored there. Called me a bitch. Wished DH had never met me and that he would leave me for someone else.

They sent a text to DH after that, telling him that I had written to them to accuse them of things (not true, I returned the letter they sent to me with a note asking them to stop harrassing me) and that I had just turned up to take the stuff they had stored. It was full of lies, half truths and was only sent in spite. He was away at the time on an exercise that could have changed his career if he had failed. They just wanted to tell him their lies before I could tell him the truth.

BiL then sent DH a message that disowned him as a brother, called me a "f*ing evil mad bitch" and said I have lied about everything (certainly all the things I've told you here.

By the time they were finished with that most recent thing, in March this year I was diagnosed as having panic attacks and mild, grief related depression and anaemia.

And yet now they think a text to DH to say they don't hold any of this against me is enough to have us all playing happy families again.

DH has been good to a point and has told them to leave me alone, but he still visits them. That's fine, but he wants to take LO and I don't want him to go.

Partly because of the neck lifting incident, coupled to the fact that both MiL and FiL are disabled, diabetic, over 20 stone each and prone to falling over. BiL and SiL have banned them from carrying their youngest children about because FIL fell on the stairs and dropped their son but I know DH isn't quite that strong and he will let them drag LO about.

Partly though because I don't think they are good people to have around a child, given the way they treated DH as a child. One of their favourite family stories is the time they had a neighbour strangle his rabbit and leave it in the cage for DH to find because it was ill and they couldn't affort the vet and wanted to teach him about death and heaven. He was nine at the time and heartbroken.

And partly because I know they will be happy if they can get DH and LO without me.

They don't do anything with their other grandchildren. They are too big and too unfit to run around or play and they only show an interest if it means they get to be visitors in someone elses house. They don't actually want to play with or talk to the children very much, they like to use them to show off to people with but they think a walk to the park or the beach is too much effort.

DH thinks I am being unreasonable to keep LO from his grandparents. I think it's unreasonable to let them have human contact with anybody because they are insane.

So, am I being unreasonable to feel I have to protect myself and my son from these people and their problems and nastiness? Would you think this behaviour is acceptable? Is them saying they don't hold any of this against me a reason to forgive and forget? I mean, it's not even an apology in my eyes but DH says it means they have accepted responsibility for all the trouble. I don't think so, I think it means they blame me for it all but are letting me off. Or are they being unreasonable to think they can have a relationship with us after all that? Is DH unreasonable still to see them at all, with or without LO.

OP posts:
TheWestCoastLotus · 06/05/2011 05:10

OP... I am just stunned by what's happened to you and I'm so sorry re the loss of your babies :(

Other than that... what everyone else said.
((((((HUG))))))

malibustac · 06/05/2011 06:52

Sorry about double post I was on my phone.

Did you show dh this thread?

cottonreels · 06/05/2011 10:26

takethisonehereforastart Im so sad for you and keep thinking about your situation. Your description of grief is so poetic it brought tears to my eyes. I wonder if youve lived with that image, of a snake, for some time. I also wonder, if on the days when you feel like its clinging on to you and you want it to feed eleswhere, if you could sort of meditate on it. Sorry if that sounds wierd. I just mean sit quiet, close your eyes and picture the snake wandering away basking in a nearby sunny spot where you can see it but its not bothering you and you can do your own thing. Does this make sense? That grief has not abandoned you, its still there, but its happy to be put on hold a while. Bless you, and know that if I had a magic wand, it would be straight out of its glittery case and waving in your direction Smile

hairfullofsnakes · 06/05/2011 19:51

Any update op? You spoken to hubby?

whackamole · 06/05/2011 20:08

OMW OP, words fail me Sad

So sorry for the loss of your babies, and as someone else said, sorry that you have so much to contend with on top of the grief.

I also think you should print your post and show it to DH, tell him you don't want contact (and in fact if you get on with his siblings I would tell them why too to stop any malicious whispers) and that under no circumstances will your children be having contact with them.

I also think some sort of counselling would be beneficial for the both of you, as from what you say, DH is not going to be open to this.

My heart breaks for you OP, how you have put up with this for so long astounds me. You're a better woman than I!

chipmonkey · 06/05/2011 21:21

Lifting your son by the neck is downright dangerous and I think any reasonable person over the age of three knows that!

They are not fit to see your ds and you are a saint not to have cut off all contact long ago.

kitcat83 · 06/05/2011 21:57

I have just read your post and it reads very similar to a lot of what we have had to put up with in my PILs.

I am so very sorry for your losses and that you have had to put up with the shit that your PIL throw at you. My mother in law has depression which she refuses to deal with and my father in law is an alcoholic. Neither of them have any idea how to behave and I have borne the brunt of mass hatred and abuse for years. Behaviour which when you write it down you think to yourself, did this really happen, am I imagining it?!!!

I have found it so stressful over the years dealing with the total unrest of their behaviour. I can really symapthise with it as it is never ending. I have been lucky however that they have up sticks and moved to France and dont come over very often, but even when they live in another country they still manage to cause no end of stress for me and DH and ignore their DGS exists.

I can only advise that you keep your children away from this behaviour and dont inflict them on the little ones as they will never change. Easier said than done but needed. Our DS no longer sees them and it is easier as they take no interest in him anyway if only to critisise us on our parenting skills.

I really hope that you can get past this and have some distance so as to have an easier life..........

mybrainsthinkingfuckyou · 07/05/2011 12:50

I read all your post with utter despair horror and sympathy for you.
Sorry - no contact for LO - and that's a dealbreaker i.e. you are telling your DH not debating it.

He ought to read this thread - anyone seeing it all catalogued like that surely can see that visitation, ongoing financial support, mediation...just not doable here.

To your DH - i know that it must be hard to hear/read critique of your parents and to feel stuck in the middle/torn in two but your wife sounds at the end of her rope and far far more reasonable than anyone else would have been. She needs back up. She needs you to protect her and your son. You may be away and not always privy to what has gone on but your loyalty now has to be with your wife.

@OP your SIL sounds like she's worth talking with as probably has a similar list.

LineRunner · 07/05/2011 13:11

Your DH "wants" your LO to visit his ghastly parents. You simply say No, not happening. Enough is enough.

I read your whole post and agree that you need to get your DH to read it, and the comments posted.

Maybe in time, you could explain to him, perhaps a family lunch in a neutral place like a Wetherspoons might be suggested, where you just get up and go if they start being weird or offensive.

I feel sorry for your DH a bit - it's not easy having whacko parents. But he does need to understand that LO comes first, and that you have quite rightly had it with his insane, harassing parents.

Good luck.

golemmings · 07/05/2011 18:39

I'm sorry you've been through this. They sound utterly evil; or maybe just very disturbed.

My dad's mother was a toxic bitch too and after her being very nasty to my mum for a number of years he cut all contact with her shortly after I was born. It needed to be him who did that, though, she was his mother. It can be done but its not easy. I don't miss having not had that side of the family at all; I'd far rather not know my cousins than have been subject to emotional abuse and manipulation.

I hope you manage to sort out an appropriate separation from your DH's family and can protect LO from the mess.

InMyPrime · 07/05/2011 19:30

Their nastiness towards you about the terrible loss of two children that you suffered would be something that I know for certain I couldn't ever forgive if it were me so you're right to cut them off on that basis alone, besides their otherwise generally unhinged behaviour. I couldn't actually read past the part of your post where your MIL questioned whether your daughter had had a 'proper face'. That is sick, ignorant behaviour.

They sound like toxic people and a total waste of energy who can bring nothing positive into your child's life so you're perfectly correct to cut them off. When your child is older and stronger, he can choose to contact them himself if he wants but since he's young and vulnerable now, you're right to protect him. Make it clear to your DH that it's a dealbreaker for you and you will not budge on this as they've caused you too much pain. He should understand and accept that. Sorry for your losses and I hope you feel better away from your ILs now.

GwendolineMaryLacey · 07/05/2011 20:02

Jesus, Mary and St Joseph Shock I'm speechless, truly... There is no word for people like that. Please don't let your boy anywhere near them.

takethisonehereforastart · 07/05/2011 22:43

Spoken to DH. I say spoken, I mean had a screaming row with (LO safely out of the house at the time).

He doesn't want to read the thread at the moment but he was shocked I'd posted all this on the internet.

It's their wedding anniversary tomorrow and they want us to go to the party. I've said that I am not going and neither is LO. He said that we would be the only people not to go and that will cause more trouble. I said I don't care.

At the moment we aren't really speaking about it, we're being civil about everything else and avoiding the subject.

I have told DH that total strangers have been more on my side than he has been and understood just how awful his parents behavior is. And I did ask him what he would have said and done had it been anyone else but his parents who had behaved like this.

I've asked him how he can expect us to attend a party and play happy families when the last conversation I had with them was one in which they called me a bitch and put the phone down on me or how he expects me to sit in the same room as the brother who wished I would f* off out of his family? I asked him what he plans to say to that brother, as the party would be the first time they had seen each other since the abusive messages stopped?

He couldn't answer. I've got no idea if he plans to go to the party tomorrow but he's due to drive back to his base tomorrow night so if he choses to spend his time with them and without us I'm going to be really peed off about it all to say the least.

OP posts:
takethisonehereforastart · 07/05/2011 22:48

SiL is a help up to a point but they live about 70 miles away and her husband (not the alcoholic BiL, the other one) is the one who says his mum has always been this way and it's easier to try and keep her happy than challenge her. He tends to think that at her age (57) she is too old to change so we should make allowances for her because of her depression.

He actually left his previous girlfriend, who he lived with and was engaged to, because she stood up to his parents once too often and upset them.

SiL has four children and not much time, every so often we have a phone chat to compare notes and she's tried to tell PIL's to back off a bit but that's about the best she can do without causing trouble in her own marriage and I wouldn't want that.

OP posts:
chipmonkey · 07/05/2011 22:51

it may be on the internet but it is anonymous and you have the benefit of MNers who can see this objectively because they were not raised in the toxic environment provided by your PIL. I hope he sees things from your point of view. Really feel for you. Sad

Gooseberrybushes · 07/05/2011 22:53

Oh my good God. I was unable to read through it all and feel desperately sorry for your husband, your children and you. She is either a very bad person or should be sectioned.

There is no question that you should stay away from her and keep your husband away too. Tell him is a break for a couple of months. After that time he might start to emerge from underwater, he might start to feel freer, and feel the contrast in his life.

I'm so sorry for you.

Gooseberrybushes · 07/05/2011 22:55

No, don't go to the party and stand your ground. That's what I think you should do. You can be as nice, and civil, and lovely as you normally are, because you are not going to the party and nothing will make you change your mind. Don't let him turn you into the bad tempered grumpy one: you need a break.

What chipmonkey says is right. He can't see straight because of his upbringing.

Gooseberrybushes · 07/05/2011 22:58

I've just tried to read through to the end of your op and I don't think I have ever read about such awful treatment anywhere on this site. I can't finish it.

For God's sake don't see them again. Don't let your children see them. She is very, very ill or a very, very bad person indeed.

pollyblue · 07/05/2011 23:11

This is awful and here's a unmumsnetty ((((hug)))).

Your DH has the right to do as he feels right, BUT you have more than enough reasons to put down your foot over your child. He must see that. In your shoes I would not allow them any contact at all with my child.

Gooseberrybushes · 07/05/2011 23:13

I am so sorry, so sorry, I said children, I should have said son. I'm sorry, I was focussing on the treatment you have received. I'm desperately sorry for your losses and I made a stupid tactless mistake.

hairfullofsnakes · 07/05/2011 23:20

I am so glad you are standing your ground on this but so sorry that your husband is being so so out of order on all of this. His toxic parents have gotten away with their vile treatment of people for top long if family members just try and keep the peace and make allowances for her. Why should they? Why should you? I think you need to be very clear with your husband who needs to start acting like a responsible father and husband and part of that is not letting his parents infect you as a family anymore and to bloody well show you some respect - you are his wife and he is codoning their shit behaviour by expecting you and your LO to see them - unbelievable!

starystar · 08/05/2011 00:16

To OP, I'm so sorry for yor losses, I think a lot has already been said, but please do stay strong. You really do sound like an amazing woman after everything you have gone through and putting up with PILs for so long. You are absolutely doing the right thing by protecting your LO from them. And its a shame your DH is not doing the same. He needs to have a wake up call and see where his priority should be which is with you and your LO. I mean, how would he feel if LO got hurt by PILs? And even if he doesn't see a big risk, it is clear there is a risk and no one should put a child in that environment whoever they are. I really hope your DH wakes up and faces reality and sees that his focus should be on you and protecting LO.

lisianthus · 08/05/2011 09:00

Don't go to the party. Keep your son away from these unpleasant people.

I am so sad for you that your DH can't or won't protect you and his son from their nastiness.

It doesn't MATTER if they are different to your son as grandparents- they are still treating you unbelievably badly, and it would be a mark of serious disrespect to you to give your son the message that treating you like this is acceptable. This what will happen if your son spends time with them as I cannot imagine that they will make any effort to speak about you in a courteous way while he is with them.

And they live with BIL who is an alcoholic drug addict who is often contacted by dubious sorts from whom he has to hide? NO way would I let my child anywhere near these people.

You may want to consider marriage counselling if DH seriously cannot see what the problem is here.

takethisonehereforastart · 08/05/2011 10:13

Gooseberry please don't apologise. It's a genuine mistake and one meant with very good intentions. And in a strange way it is nice when someone includes all our children when they speak to us.

We had a much less shouty conversation last night after I posted and none of us are going to the party.

He still doesn't view his relationship with them and his upbringing as an abusive one and I know he still hopes this will be sorted out so they can be a part of our lives.

But as calmly as I could I said that his mother is controlling and causes all her own problems. I reminded him that his own sister said that their Dad had confided in her that he can cope with MiLs depression but cannot cope with her stubborness and her need to have her own way all the time. And I said that if he can't cope with her, why should we? I said that she was selfish and held the familly hostage with her tantrums and demands and FiL allowed her to do it by ringing up to be aggressive whenever she was upset. I told him that normal parents don't disown their own son because he visited his sister at Christmas for two hours and they feel left out. And I asked him why he thought any of us had to put up with all of that or if he thought any of it was untrue. And he couldn't say that it wasn't true and admitted he wouldn't put up with it from anybody else.

So I said that other people would have made him choose between his parents and his wife and children a long time ago and I had tried to be fair by not doing that but that I was asking him to choose now before they split us up. He said he chose us.

I don't think this is resolved but I think it's bought us some breathing space. I'm hoping we don't get more calls and abuse later when we don't arrive at the party or after it is over. I have a feeling they will wait until DH is back at his base and away from home/me before they cause any trouble though, they often do it that way. I'm going to keep this thread in reserve to show him if need be at a later date.

OP posts:
chocolatepuff · 08/05/2011 10:28

im in shock and have never heard of such vile and toxic people as your pils. im sorry you've had to put up with all their shit, they sound menatlly unstable to say the least. i really recommend relate therapy for you and dh, taking a print out of your op along.

good luck, and you are right in never seeing them again, nor allowing contact with your son. take care