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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to be slightly bemused that she actually thinks this?

46 replies

NoWayNoHow · 03/05/2011 15:00

Old friend of mine has an 18 week old DS (first child), and he's just started going through that difficult period they go through at this age where they have growth spurts, sometimes teeth, etc, but basically wake loads more in the night and drive us parents to distraction.

She has genuinely just phoned me to ask me what she can do to stop her DS "from being so naughty" Hmm

Not said jokingly. Totally serious. Asking my opinion cos I have a background in child development so might be able to help with any "behavioural issues"! Double Hmm

I've basically dismissed the whole naughty angle and gone with the standard "it's just one of those phases they go through when they get to this age, can you see any sign of teething, is he feeding more, might be the 4 month growth spurt?" etc etc.

But AIBU to be a little Shock that in 2011, a well-educated and intelligent woman actually believes that her 4 month old baby is being deliberately naughty??

OP posts:
nethunsreject · 03/05/2011 15:03

It's sad, isn't it?

notnowbernard · 03/05/2011 15:04

I was at a party once when a Mother told us to ignore her (crying) 8m old because he was "having a tantrum"

FFS

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe2726 · 03/05/2011 15:06

The word doesn't mean much though, does it? I mean 'naughty', it's a really soft word and her son isn't going to realise what it means... same goes for tantrum. Why is this country so hung up on words? Confused

notnowbernard · 03/05/2011 15:08

The Mother I am referring to behaved as if her baby were actually having a tantrum, though - she was treating him like a 2yr old, not an 8m old

She positioned herself away from him, told others to ignore him, made a deliberate, 'louder' fuss of other babies that were in the room

Original poster
NoWayNoHow · 03/05/2011 15:09

LyingWitch it's not the words I have a problem with, it's the underlying meaning behind it - that she already views this baby as something which is deliberately provoking and upsetting her - and how this will impact the way she looks after him.

OP posts:
BuntyPenfold · 03/05/2011 15:09

One ex-colleague in a nursery was yelling at a 2 year old - '... and no one will ever like you and you'll never have any friends!' Shock

Bogeyface · 03/05/2011 15:09

SHe may well have had this from her mother. I know that my older female relatives see a baby who cries any time other than feeding time or teething is a naughty baby and shouldnt be indulged. I was once told that I shouldnt give in to my babys tantrums, she was 8 weeks old!

Casey76 · 03/05/2011 15:11

I worked at a private nursery once and was told by the nursery nurse not to pick up a screaming 3 month baby because she was "spoilt" the reason the nursery nurse thought this.....the baby had on a gold baby bracelet!!!!!!!!!!

Needless to say I did not work there long!!!!!

JamieAgain · 03/05/2011 15:11

I can see both sides - it may just be an off-the-cuff term, BUT, the mother may genuinely (irrationally) believe the son is somehow doing something deliberately, and it may suggest she's blaming him for something and may react to it accordingly. Sometimes when people are stressed they blame the baby ....

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe2726 · 03/05/2011 15:14

Yes but does she really, OP? I find that life is really not like the textbooks. She refers to her son being 'naughty' but so have parents through the ages... and has that ever stopped them from loving their children? No, it hasn't.

If you really are concerned, then ask her if she's worried about something in particular.

AMumInScotland · 03/05/2011 15:52

I think it's probably that she has never really met any other babies, so has no idea what they are "meant" to be like. I was "well-educated and intelligent" when I had DS - but I had virtually no experience of babies.

You just need to keep reassuring her that what she's experiencing is normal, and maybe suggest she makes some friends with babies of a similar age so she can see what they are like. That's the only thing that gave me any idea whether how DS behaved was normal or not.

JamieAgain · 03/05/2011 15:57

Good post AMum - plus I'd say the way normal babies behave is at times trying. OP if your friend is generally a nice person, I think she might need some support

Original poster
NoWayNoHow · 03/05/2011 17:17

As I said, I have given her some advice on what it could be, and how to handle it (just resting and forgetting about everything else except her and DS till the phase is over), so I am supporting her. I just don't know if it's coming from an irrational upset caused by sleep deprivation, or a genuine belief.

She has a group of NCT friends that have all now had their babies, and she spends a lot of time with them, from what she tells me, so she's seeing what other babies are and aren't like. Without giving too much away, her jobs entails being around babies too.

If I'm honest, I think bogeyface might have hit the nail on the head re: older generations and their influence/ideas - culturally I think this may be a factor because of where we're both from (I know my grandmother is a good example of this mindset).

But I'll obviously continue to support her and change the subject every time she suggests modifying his behaviour to stop the "naughtiness".

That's all that really concerns me - that she'll start to change her DS's access to the things he needs right now (love, food, affection) for fear of "spoiling" him.

OP posts:
MumInBeds · 03/05/2011 17:20

She probably keeps being asked by well meaning people 'Is he a good baby?'

colditz · 03/05/2011 17:20

This thread is a good explanation of why my children didn't go to nursery until they could speak.

It's so sad that apparently intelligent creatures treat a baby so horribly.

JamieAgain · 03/05/2011 17:23

Well that changes it a bit. It's hard when friends have different views about things - but realistically there is a spectrum - Not much you can do unless you think she's harming the baby.

Original poster
NoWayNoHow · 03/05/2011 17:27

MumInBeds yes, there is nothing worse! Although our with DS's head trauma, he literally screamed non stop for the first 6 weeks of his life (with us not knowing what the hell was wrong with him) so we didn't often get asked that question - I think people probably assumed they knew the answer Sad

OP posts:
woopsidaisy · 03/05/2011 17:40

Looking back,I think I had some PND and serious sleep deprivation with DS1. I remember thinking at night that he was being deliberately horrible to me,that he was doing this on purpose,just trying to upset me...he was crying!
OK,he cried alot. I had about 3.5 hrs sleep a night,for months.I had not the slightest idea of how to look after him. Clearly I had lost the plot. But many times there really was nothing wrong with him. He just wanted cuddles-at 2am.Grin
He was fed,winded,dry and cosy,just didn't want into the moses basket. Isn't this kind of "having a tantrum" if they keep crying?
I mean not that they are deliberately being naughty,but that you're encouraging the behaviour if you keep picking them up?
With DS2 I just popped him into bed with me when he woke,breast fed and all was goodGrin.
I have always thought that I was a pretty shitty mum due to never having a notion in the early stages...but people do tell you that they need to learn to sleep in their bed etc,don't they? How do you teach them if not to let them cry sometimes?

Sidge · 03/05/2011 17:57

It's tied up in the perception that as soon as possible after birth babies should:

sleep as long as possible
feed as infrequently as possible, as quickly as possible
cry as little as possible

In other words, not impact on the parents' lives too significantly.

Scary really. The above is many people's perception of a "good baby".

colditz · 03/05/2011 18:00

You don't need to teach them.

Until they are old enough to understand that you are not gone forever when you walk out of the room (object permanence - acquired developmentally between 8 and 12 months) they cannot be 'taught' not to cry. They cry until you come. They do not know thatyou are in another room and they are perfectly safe. They think you are gone.

You can't teach object permanence understanding. It comes with time.

colditz · 03/05/2011 18:02

This is why they say not to leave your baby crying until the baby is at least one year old, and never if he/she appears ill or off colour in any way.

woopsidaisy · 03/05/2011 18:06

But how do you do anything? Hoover the carpet,empty the dishwasher,go for a poo?!

And I simply was the most miserable and unhappy I have ever been in my life in the first few months of DS1s life. I was in a nightmare of no sleep and crying...
OK my mum and lots of other elderly relatives were saying he was spoilt,leave him to cry etc. I didn't actually like leaving him to cry. Even now my mum says that I pandered to him and went to him too quickly as a baby.
Apparently I did it all wrong..Sad

MumInBeds · 03/05/2011 18:09

I feel your pain woopsidaisy, the only way I got anything done was to wear my little one in slings, especially dd who had such awful reflux so was only comfortable upright. I have no idea how many times I muttered 'this too will pass' under my breath.

TrinityRhino · 03/05/2011 18:13

wholeheartedly agree with everything coldita ahs said

and I must say lyingwitch are you serious
I mean you cant actually be serious can you

TrinityRhino · 03/05/2011 18:16

woops

no you aren't encouraging the behaviour if you go to them when they cry
it's not possible
your baby is not thinking mwah ha ha, I can get her to come if I cry

he just needs comfort and you are it

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