Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to blame our huge debt on DH's alcoholism?

63 replies

visionthing · 02/05/2011 21:47

I haven't blamed him to his face. This is more of a slowly dawning realisation. Here are the figures:

We are approximately £25k in debt. This is across personal loan, overdraft and credit cards.

He has been an full on (drinking every possible evening) alcoholic since about 1998. Thirteen years. At his current levels of drinking he can easily spend £300 a month. So to average out over the years at £200 a month (to allow for rising prices and occasional nights off) that would mean he has spent £31k on alcohol in 13 years.

If he hadn't spent that money on alcohol, maybe we wouldn't be in debt.

I have been guilty of spending money knowing that it's money I didn't have to spend. But I do not buy unreasonably expensive things. I do not buy expensive clothes (mostly charity shops in fact), I do not go on expensive holidays (camping in uk usually), we have a small house and I run a cheap 2nd hand car.

I am in a professional job and earn more than the national average.

Yet this debt has grown to such proportions that it takes up a large chunk of monthly income just to make repayments. And we can't live on the rest - especially not with DH's drinking habit as it is.

So am I being unreasonable to begin to think that this whole mess of horrible debt is his fucking fault?

OP posts:
Original poster
visionthing · 02/05/2011 22:35

What's good about being married to him:

We laugh together
We both adore our dd
Sex can be pretty good (when it happens - not often as I won't go near him when he's drunk)
He cooks dinner almost every day and plently of other chores he does all the time without ever complaining
A million other little things he does for me willingly without complaint (such as finding something I lost or making me a cuppa, typing up something for my work etc)

What's bad:

His drinking
Our debt
Our different parenting styles
Our different beliefs / interests
My growing resentment at his lack of job / income forcing me to have to work full time when I really really want to spend more time with our toddler dd.

OP posts:
hairylights · 02/05/2011 22:38

I'm amazed at some posts about couples having a drink together. £200-300 a month is shit loads and if the family doesn't have it yet it's being spent on drink them it's a problem.

And he's not working, so he isn't contributing to necessities so he can't afford to drink!!

Original poster
visionthing · 02/05/2011 22:40

Funnys surely that would just make me equally responsible for spending money on something we cannot afford? Or are you trying to suggest that he is not an alcoholic? (he is, by his own admission, although he won't seek help)

OP posts:
squeakytoy · 02/05/2011 22:40

Why is he not working? Is he a SAHD?

How much does he actually drink? It is the quantity rather than the quality which can make a difference between someone who enjoys a drink, or someone who is just drinking to get pissed.

You say these problems have been around for years, yet you have a toddler, so the marriage must have seemed ok for you to want to raise a child in it.

The question is, do you want an excuse to leave him, or do you want to sort it out and repair the marriage.

squeakytoy · 02/05/2011 22:44

And he's not working, so he isn't contributing to necessities so he can't afford to drink!!

There are plenty of SAHM's who are not earning, who have a glass or three of wine most nights. Are we saying that if you dont work, you should not be able to have anything from the family finances unless it is a necessity?

I agree if there are financial problems, alcohol is not a priority for either partner though.

hairylights · 02/05/2011 22:47

Not if you've already run up a huge debt like that and you have a drink problem and the situation is making your partner unhappy, no.

squeakytoy · 02/05/2011 22:50

But from what the op has said, the debt has been run up jointly, not spent on drink.

Original poster
visionthing · 02/05/2011 22:50

He is a SAHD but it's a position we were both forced into because he was made redundant. Hebis supposed to be applying for jobs and assures me he is looking but as far as I know he hasn't applied for a single one.

He drinks 2 bottles of wine a night. Often 1 and a half because he falls asleep on the sofa before he finishes it. He has to make a huge effort of will not to buy the wine. He really struggles not to drink. He will use any excuse to let himself off his resolve to not drink tonight (a resolve he makes most nights and breaks most nights).

OP posts:
hairylights · 02/05/2011 22:52

The man is spending £200-300 a month on alcohol, and so the family can't afford food/bills without going into debt. I wouldn't call that "jointly".

hairylights · 02/05/2011 22:54

He drinks 2 bottles of wine a night. Often 1 and a half because he falls asleep on the sofa before he finishes it. He has to make a huge effort of will not to buy the wine. He really struggles not to drink. He will use any excuse to let himself off his resolve to not drink tonight (a resolve he makes most nights and breaks most nights).

That is excessive even if you had the money. He has got a problem.

needanewfocus · 02/05/2011 22:54

We used to be in that level of debt, for the same reasons, just overspending and going into overdraft etc.

We got our acts together and paid it off and have lived within our means for a long while. We probably drink more now than we did then though!

squeakytoy · 02/05/2011 22:56

I know it gets mentioned a lot, but could it also be depression, particularly in the current circumstance of him not working.

Did he drink this amount before he was made redundant? Presumably it was more easily affordable with two wages coming in.

I would honestly say, he has a drink problem, but isnt an alcoholic. It sounds more like habit than anything else.

What time does he start drinking? Now the lighter nights are here, how about you all go for a walk in the early evening, do things together which mean he isnt just slumped on the sofa with a glass in his hand.

I am not trying to say he is blameless, but trying to suggest ways in which you could work together on cutting down his drinking, which would be beneficial in a lot of ways, not least in repairing the relationship and saving money.

If you leave him, a childminder would cost a lot more than 300 a month.

Original poster
visionthing · 02/05/2011 23:03

Squeakytoy - Yes he did drink this much before he was made redundant. No we couldn't afford it then either because I was at home with dd. You have made me realise though that before I had dd 3 years ago, we did have a much larger income and shouldve been able to absorb the spend on his alcohol. But we were running up debts even then. So maybe I am being unreasonable to blame the whole lot on him.

What is the difference between 'alcoholic' and 'drink problem'? Serious question.

OP posts:
Original poster
visionthing · 02/05/2011 23:04

Squeakytoy - he starts drinking while cooking the evening meal.

OP posts:
atswimtwolengths · 02/05/2011 23:07

What would happen if you told him the money simply wasn't there for alcohol?

FunnysInTheGarden · 02/05/2011 23:08

basically vision could he stop right now of he needed to ie Set himself the challenge? If not then he is dependant, if he can then it is just a habit.

Yukana · 02/05/2011 23:10

YANBU for thinking this debt has been caused by his drinking problem.

YABU for having not done anything about it. (An assumption on my part seeing as no information was given regarding this).

squeakytoy · 02/05/2011 23:11

Its very easy to get into that habit of having a glass of wine on the go when you start the dinner.. maybe that is the first step.

The difference (as I see it between addiction and a problem) is outlined on the NSH pages which I have cut and paste here as it explains it in a much clearer way than I could.

Problem (harmful) drinking
This is where you continue to drink heavily even though you have caused harm, or are causing harm or problems to yourself, family, or society. For example, you may:

Have cirrhosis or another alcohol-related condition.
Binge drink and get drunk quite often. This may cause you to lose time off work, or behave in an antisocial way when you drink. But note: not everybody with problem drinking binges or gets drunk. Many people with an alcohol-related condition such as cirrhosis drink small amounts frequently but do not get drunk.
Spend more money on alcohol than you can afford.
Have problems with your relationships or at work because of your drinking.
Many problem drinkers are not dependent on alcohol. They could stop drinking without withdrawal symptoms if they wanted to. But, for one reason or another, they continue to drink heavily.

Alcohol dependence (addiction)
This is a serious situation where drinking alcohol takes a high priority in your life. You drink every day, and often need to drink to prevent unpleasant withdrawal symptoms (see below). In the UK, about 2 in 100 women and about 6 in 100 men are alcohol-dependent

squeakytoy · 02/05/2011 23:12

NHS, not NSH.. sorry.

foreverondiet · 02/05/2011 23:20

Well if you want to stay with him you need to work out a way to reduce the debt. So he's a SAHD looking after a toddler. If he gets a job then you'll have childcare costs.

Set up a new bank account for bills and get your salary paid into it.
Work out how much each month you are going to use to reduce your debt. Cancel all credit cards.
Transfer any excess into a 2nd bank account and agree with him how much you can spend each - do not have any overdraft facility on this account.

What happens if there is no booze in the house?

Snorbs · 02/05/2011 23:20

If he's doing one and a half to two bottles of wine per night then he's downing over 100 units of alcohol a week. By any standard, that's a fuck of a lot of booze. Given that he's been doing this for a long time then, quite frankly, you've not seen him properly sober for years. It's also a level of drinking that will likely trigger alcohol withdrawal symptoms if/when he stops drinking.

Whether his drinking is the sole reason for the debt or not, you cannot keep on like this. Well, you could, but he'll drag you down with him. Living with a drunk can be bloody awful as you know you take second place to the booze. Raising children with a drunk is horrible. Been there, done that.

Have you considered going to a few Al Anon meetings? I found them quite helpful. I also found Melody Beattie's book Codependent No More very useful, and one-to-one counselling (organised via my GP) a bloody life-saver.

Original poster
visionthing · 02/05/2011 23:28

atswim: 'What would happen if you told him the money simply wasn't there for alcohol?'

I have told him this. He buys it anyway.

He is perfectly aware of our financial difficulties. In fact, he has more of a clue than I do of what is happening in our bank account on a day to day basis as he looks at Internet banking pretty much every other day. I don't. In this way he seems to be more responsible than me about money. But he still spends it on alcohol, even though he knows it's tearing us apart.

OP posts:
Original poster
visionthing · 02/05/2011 23:36

Snorbs - I did go to a couple of al-anon meetings. It caused such an angry response in my H I didn't bother going again. It was easier to leave it. Also, now I'm back at work full time I spend as much non-work time as possible with my dd.

I would love to try counselling but I would have the same 2 issues as above.

OP posts:
Original poster
visionthing · 02/05/2011 23:41

Foreveronadiet - great advice about how to separate the finances. A couple of questions:

Would food and petrol be included in household bills? Meaning only I would have access to that money as it would be in my wage pay in account? Or would it be better to split that money between us too?

How do I deal with the massive overdraft on our joint account if I'm to have no overdraft on the account he can access?

Thanks [crap with money matters emoticon]

OP posts:
squeakytoy · 02/05/2011 23:42

Can you take the cards off him so he has no money to go spending on booze?

My main problem wouldnt be the drink so much as the fact you cant afford the drink. If money wasnt a problem, would you be more relaxed about him drinking or would it still be a big issue do you think?

My husband enjoys a couple of pints every night after work with his mates, and I enjoy the peace to be honest, he is home for dinner at 7ish and some nights he will have a drink in the house, as will I, but when money was tight recently, we both cut back. He didnt go to the pub every tea time, and we bought a box of wine that had to last a week, when it was gone, it was gone, and we stuck to it.