To be avoiding my bereaved mum because I'm finding her impossible

[Spudulika]

..... lost my dad February 2010. Thought my mum would die of grief. They had a loooooong and unusually happy marriage - did everything together and were full of affection for each other. We've all rallied round over the past year (me, my older sister who has moved in with my mum, my brother, and my mum's friends) and tried to keep her going, though it's been difficult at times. She's had bereavement counselling and is no longer crying on and off all day, every day.

Over a year on and I'm not expecting any *massive changes. They were married for nearly 50 years and I know she's never ever going to 'get over' losing him. But I'd hope for a very, very gradual increase in happiness. And this seemed to happen for a while. Her physical health improved, she started to go out more. Things appeared to be slowly getting better.

However, over the past few months she seems to have gone through a personality change that's making her incredibly hard to be with. She's very bitter and touchy and critical, to the point where I've become wary of saying ANYTHING to her that isn't 100% positive. An example of this would be the other day when she made me a sandwich while I was visiting her. Her eyesight is very bad and I think she didn't realise that she'd totally overloaded it with salt, to the point where it was actually making me feel ill as I ate it. She said 'is your sandwich ok?' and I said it was, because I felt that if I told her it was too salty she'd get angry with me. Later I said to her that if she got an electrician in to check one of the dodgy light fittings in the kitchen he might suggest she has some rewiring done. Her response was a very ratty 'Yes - I know that'. She's terrible with my youngest, who is five and has ASD. She's very controlling - over silly, pointless things. I mean it's literally non-stop telling off and instructing. And he's really not that bad - a bit silly and hyper sometimes, but not destructive or aggressive or anything.

Last week he accidentally broke a cheap, narrow bottomed vase she had on the floor by the front door, while taking his shoes off. It was a complete accident - I was watching him and saw that he wasn't being silly or careless. She immediately said 'Now look what you've done!' and when I responded, 'mum - it was a complete accident' the response was 'yes, but he's always doing things without looking where he's going'. She then repeated this to him. He was very upset and started to try to pick the glass up, at which point she got angry with him for that too. On the way home he said that she'd told him that she'd had the vase for 10 years. He's 5 for goodness sake. And even though he'd said (and I'd said) sorry over and over again, she had to wait until I was out the room and then guilt trip him.

I know I ought to see her more (it's an hour's drive to hers and I usually go once a week and talk to her on the phone every day) but I feel an intense reluctance to that I'm finding hard to overcome. Recently I've gone a fortnight without visiting and had a few days go past in the week when I haven't called. I feel that I'm constantly walking on eggshells when I'm with her, just waiting for her to snap at me over anything. And she does snap and gripe and take umbrage at everything.

And I HATE taking the children over because of the way she's been behaving with my youngest (even though I know she adores him and also gives him lots of hugs and kisses). I go over there with him and just feel so stressed and tense.

I'm wondering if this is a permanent change of personality, and if it is, how are we all going to cope with it. She was very angry for a while in the first few months after my dad died, but that anger wasn't directed at us and the rest of the family.

Any thoughts? (ps - know I should have put this on the bereavement board but usual excuse - it's busier here!)

a year or so is nothing, you know this yourself in your own journey through grief

I am inclined to say cut some slack wrt how she speaks to you but keep on calling her on the way she deals with the children

I am so sorry for you all and have trod a very similar path myself

YANBU as such.. you need to do what's best for your children. BUt I think a letter explaining to your mother why recently you feel reluctant to see her might be a good idea. Maybe try and help her to make some new friends?

Oh dear, poor you. I don't have much helpful advice but didn't want to leave this unanswered. Not fair on your DS to be taking the brunt - are you able to explain to him that it is not his fault and it is because his Gran is unhappy? Maybe too complex for a 5yo with ASD to understand.

Is there anyone else in the family that can talk to her?

She is heartbroken and depressed. YANBU in the sense that you can't help how you feel about her behaviour.

But YABU to expect her to be any different. I suspect part of her died when her husband did. All the support in the world is not going to stop her feeling like the loneliest person in the world right now.

50 years of happiness with your dad? 1 year of grief is really no time at a all.

I was told by our GP, after my father died, to not expect Mum to start 'coming around' for 2 years. It's early days yet for your Mum.

Nobody wants to be the one to say anything - we're all frightened of her reaction.

My poor bloody sister (who lives with her) - she's a recovering alcoholic. I worry that my mum's behaviour is going to drive her back on the sauce. It would me.

Sorry that you lost your Dad.

I went through this with my Mum and to a certain extent I was the same to other people. It was like I was stuck in the "Anger" stage of grief and I couldn't move on. I was angry about everything!

I needed counselling to help, but (after several months) my Mum moved on by herself. It was hard though, and I did wonder if it was a permanent change.

I would give the same advice as boys, keep calling her on her behaviour with the children and maybe if you can, maybe a few hints of "thats not like you mum" or "have I upset you? You seem cross with me?"

I am sure your Mum will move on, but if you think she is open to it, you could always suggest she contacts Cruse, they were fantastic for me and I got the help I needed.

Very very early days still.

It is common to go through a phase of being angry during bereavement. That doesn't mean its easy for you though.

Not sure what to suggest though. Perhaps going over to visit her one evening without the children and asking her how she is feeling and that she must still really miss your Dad. And then perhaps you could gently suggest that you understand that she is probably feeling very angry that she has lost him and that you want to support her but that you are finding it very difficult at the moment because of how angry she is with you and the children. Remind her that you are devastated by the loss of your dad too so that you are probably a bit sensitive (I don't think you are but this may help sweeten it a bit) and see what she says.

Could this work?

Agree with Wolfhound about asking someone else ot speak to her. You sound really frightened of putting a foot wrong. I can understand this [my Dad died 4 years ago] but it shouldn't be effecting your son.

Do you think if your mum knew how you were feeling that it may make her really think about how she is behaving. I'm sure she wouldn't want to drive you away.

It is early days but that is no excuse for her taking out her feelings on a 5 year old child. No excuse at all.

Can you see her without the kids? Would stop you and the kids getting stressed about that part of the visit.

It's grief. But you are grieving too. And very sadly her being unhappy and snapping at everyone makes a hard situation even harder for everyone. I bet she hates herself for being like this but just cannot stop that bitterness.

I would give her a more months ( you visiting without kids if possible) and in these few months formulate a plan of action. Because I think you will need to sit your mum down with the words "I love you so much mum, I know you are hurting but you are pushing us away....."
There will be no overnight cure. But she might rejoin the land of the living and appreciate people care etc.

Otherwise - visit and have wine cooling in your fridge for your return home for when you have ungritted your teeth.

Hi. I know what you are going though. I lost my dad many years ago but at the time mum pulled herself together quite quickly. However, in the years since her physical health declined making her snappy with my dc especially my ds. (he has been known to openly say I don't like granny)
I still spent quite a bit of time with her. Often going whilst the children are at school to help. (roughly once a week) Also taking her on holiday once a year.
Sadly she passed away last month. I am so grateful that I kept on seeing her. (although we were only 30 miles away) Strangely it was my ds who seemed most upset when she passed away.
As boys said please do continue to see and support her if you can but rein her in when she is being unreasonable with your dc.

I feel like my mum has lost her ability to empathise with anyone. She's said some incredibly nasty things about her friends in the past few months.

But yes, you're right. A year is no time at all. I'm just frightened she's going to get 'stuck' in this phase and never come out the other side.

Sorry about your dad X

I think you can't expect your mum to come round very quickly. But I do think you can cut your visits to once a fortnight and maybe not always take the kids (or maybe just take one at a time). Did you call her every day before your dad died ? If not - then no reason not to cut it back to every other day or every few days.

Is she the same with your sister who is with her now ? How is your sister coping ? How about your other siblings ?

Sorry, but when it comes to your children you need to tell her straight. Not harshly or cruelly; just be matter of fact - "TBH Mum I'm reluctant to bring the children to see you. You seem to do nothing but get at them and it's upsetting them. I know you're still upset about Dad but that's not my kids' fault and until you can treat them properly I won't be putting them through it".

Then go from there.

Once heard a quote in a film, can't remember which one, that stuck with me. Something like;

"You can only be so unpleasant, regardless of what you've been through, before people stop caring".

It is still early days and obviously a devastating loss for her. Do you really think though, that she'd want you all to be tiptoe-ing around her terrified of her reactions to the point that you're thinking of reducing visits?

Can you and your siblings sit down and talk to her about this? Perhaps she just needs you to make her realise that she's in danger if damaging her relationships with her children and grandchildren. She's probably still so wrapped up in her grief that she doesn't ever realise it's happening.

Which is why you need to say something. Because the danger is, she'll get used to talking to people like that - even after she's feeling better.

Hi,
I'm sorry for your loss Spudulika.

I am no expert, but when my dad (January 2005) my mum underwent a complete personality transplant that lasted just over 2 years. There's a lot of rubbish spoken about the importance of getting over the first year following the death of a loved one, as though the end of that year marks a magical new start where all pain and grief is wiped away and the bereaved person steps out happily into the world, glowing with new-found confidence and happiness. It just isn't like that though!

Everyone deals with grief in their own way. It is certainly not uncommon for your mum to still be struggling on a daily basis, just over a year after her husband's death. When I was in your situation, I allowed my mum's feelings to overshadow my own, and after every visit I could be found chuntering under my breath in the kitchen/bathroom/garden for hours afterwards, due to something she had said or done that ignored my feelings. It felt as though she viewed her grief as somehow more important than mine.

It sounds as though your mum is currently going through the "acceptance" phased of her grief. This was the part that I found hardest, and I know my mum did too. The actual belief that the person you love is never coming back - dealing with this is really hard.

Your mum won't be like this for ever, but it might well take a lot longer for her old self to return; and she might return in a new/changed format too!

If you discuss her behaviour / attitude towards your DS with her, do you think she will respond in a positive way? Do you think it will, in the long run, make any difference to the way she behaves? If the answer to either of these questions is No, I wouldn't bother, quite frankly. I made that mistake with my own mum (not re. her treatment of my DS, but re. other behaviour after dad's death that was making both our lives miserable, and I wish to God I hadn't bothered. The words that came out of her mouth will live with me for ever and they were not nice or forgettable!).

I would concentrate on being the supportive daughter that you obviously are, but please know that you cannot - nor should you - lessen your mum's grief in any way. On top of that, you have your own child(ren?) to look after, and your own grief to manage. You have lost your dad, and that's a heavy burden to bear, without the additional pressures of a young child and a grieving mother. Be good to yourself; you may find that some counselling would help you to cope with your mum's temperament/behaviour more easily (I did this and it really helped). Cruse are very good - www.cruse.org.uk

If things aren't any better in another year's time, then yes, I would consider speaking to your mum. Your top priority is to your child, so if you think it's better at the moment to keep him away from your mum at certain times then do so, without feeling guilty. He's too young to understand what's going on, and he doesn't deserve to be made to feel bad for little accidents.

If you need to keep away from your mum for your own sanity - again, do so, without feeling guilty (ha, it's a tall order, I know).

What does your sister say about it all? - if she's living with your mum, she presumably sees several mood changes throughout the course of each day ...

I hope things get better soon.

throckenholt - my older sister (who at 48 is not married and has no kids) moved in with her while my dad was unwell, and intends to stay. My sis has problems of her own - recovering alcoholic. Poor thing, she works very hard in a demanding job, and then goes back to my mum's sniping in the evening. And because she's moved in with my mum she has a very long commute into work. My mum complains about her coming home late from work and has no idea of the professional responsibilities my sister is having to cope with.

She also wants my sister to drive her everywhere, even though she has her own car and is a good driver. She expects my sister to accompany her to visit friends. Very hard for my sis. She has little time for herself and doesn't want to spend much of what she does have in the company of people in their 80's. Not to say she won't do it - she does, but not as much as my mum wants or expects. On Friday my mum went into a sulk because my sis refused to go to a garden party with her - two doors down. My sister hates the royals and had no interest in the wedding. For goodness sake, my sister was an anarchist in her youth. Now she's forced to sit around having tea and waving union jacks with octogenarians who make regular donations to the Tory party. I ended up going over and watching the royal wedding with her instead.

BTW - thank you everyone for your kind words and advice. Bereavement stinks doesn't it?

Couldn't agree more Spudulika. (someone who has had 2 bereavement in last year)
Hopefully time will heal.

So sorry for your loss.

I am especially concerned for your sister - is there anywhere else she could live other than with your Mum? It's easy for a mutually dependent and destructive relationship to take root in those circumstances - which may well hinder your Mum regaining in time her independence.

I am sorry she's being so snarky with you and your children. It amde me think how lucky you were to notice the difference from before if that makes sense - my own mother has always been this way and the thought of me breaking anything at all of hers, however accidentally - makes me feel like vomitting from fear.

Which again leads me to believe that she is someone capable of great love and loyalty and she will come round in the end, but to her own timinmg, not yours, sadly.

I am so sorry Spud, and your poor sister.

Though I did snort with laughter at the thought of your sister sat there at a trestle table, sausage rolls, little flag in hand, trying to blank out the "ooohs and ahhs" of the bridal dresses whilst recalling her 'rebel' days. Has your sister any hair left or has she torn it all out?

X-post

This may sound harsh but am deadly serious and speak from experience. Your sister needs to move out or her life and future will be forever seriously compromised. She may think she is doing a good thing but in the long run she is not.

The fact she is single and child-free is irrelevant. As someone with previous addiction problems ( or indeed anyone else) she absolutely must not become a victim - in her mind or anyone else's.