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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

To worry about my daughter

26 replies

manicinsomniac · 01/05/2011 14:15

She is 8 years old and in year 3.

On Thursday at school she was sick twice and wet her pants. The school nurse has confirmed that she is not ill. Her teacher (who, awkwardly, is a close friend of mine) has told me that she is doing it deliberately - she watched her jiggle about all through an assembly and a maths lesson, denying she needed the toilet before basically just standing still and weeing in the playground. Then later in the day she saw her out on the path jamming her fingers down her throat after asking if she could be excused because she felt sick. She was sick again in a bucket in the sick bay but nobody was watching her so, again, it could have been self induced.

Since then we haven't been at school but my younger daughter wet herself at the park this morning (only turned 4 last week, so whatever, I expect it occasionally). She cried though and I suppose I did fuss over her a bit. Ten minutes later older daughter was wet too. Previous to this I don't think she's had any accidents for more than 3 years, she's 8 ffs. This has to be deliberate!

Partly I'm worried that she is looking for attention (I'm a single mum, I work very long hours) but I'm especially worried about the throwing up as I have an eating disorder (and my daughter's teacher knows that). I'm 99.9% certain that my daughter knows nothing about this but I'm terrified of some genetic or unconscious influence - this is very unlikely right?? She has always been a very very picky eater but has never said that she thinks she is fat (she's very skinny).

Has anybody ever experienced their child doing anything like this deliberately? For attention?
Am I being unreasonable and over reating in worrying that she is going to develop some serious problems?

I just don't want her to turn out like me.

OP posts:

MCos · 01/05/2011 14:33

Could it be that the wetting was an accident, that she was mortified and tried to cover up by being sick?

Sometimes girls of this age do hold on way too long, and an occasional accident isn't unheard of. My DD1 is 9, sometimes I have to bully her into going to the toilet. I can also image if she did have an accident at school that she would be absolutely mortified.

But, where did she learn about self inducing vomit? I didn't learn that trick until I was in my late teens.
And, if teacher witnessed her jamming her fingers in her throat and then getting sick, why was she not monitored in sick bay?
I wonder how can you determine if she really did make herself sick on purpose? and why?

icooksocks · 01/05/2011 14:33

I have no personal experience, but from the outside looking in I'd say your DD has issue's you need to be addressing. It certainly looks like atention seeking to me. When she's in bed and relaxed tonight-try talking to her.

FabbyChic · 01/05/2011 14:35

Are you spending enough quality time with her? Do you spend more time caring for the 4 year old? It certainly sounds like attention to me, making herself sick so you have to collect her so she spends time with you.

It sounds psychological.

worraliberty · 01/05/2011 14:36

I'd say she probably has some kind of emotional issue going on and yes, it could be lack of attention if you are a single parent and work very long hours.

Does she see her Dad at all?

Original poster

manicinsomniac · 01/05/2011 14:40

MCos - yes, I suppose that explanation is possible. It was mentioned in sick bay but it was decided not to let my daughter know that they knew, if that makes sense. They went along with her saying she felt ill - I mean, maybe she did feel really sick and decided to give herself a helping hand!

And I have no idea where she learned to do it - scary! I have to say I worked it out for myself aged 10 on a 'what can go in can come out' type reasoning but, I don't know she seems too normal and innocent to be knowing how to do that kind of thing. I'm terrified she's seen me do it somehow but I'm sure that's impossible.

icooksocks - you're right, I know I need to talk to her but I'm worried about making a big deal out of it or giving her ideas she doesn't have.

OP posts:

Original poster

manicinsomniac · 01/05/2011 14:44

No, she hasn't seen her Dad since she was 3. He's Brazilian and moved back there. He had no interest in maintaining contact.

I don't know if I spend enough time with her. In the holidays we do massive amounts but not so much in the term. I work in the same school so I see her a lot and she is with me a lot but I guess it isn't exactly quality time. I don't think I spend more time with my younger girl.

OP posts:

icooksocks · 01/05/2011 14:48

You need to word it so that your not leading her into saying things. Don't nessercarily (sp?) mention the wetting, but ask her how she is, ask her if there's anything she wants to tell you. Let her know you are always prepared to listen. Maybe make a regular thing of bedtime talks and sharing, she will be at her most relaxed at that time. Maybe lead the way with a little "share" of your own-maybe about how much you miss her when your at work? I could becompletely wrong-I'm just trying to help.

Original poster

manicinsomniac · 01/05/2011 14:54

no, thank you, that sounds good. Attention without mentioning that it's that behaviour that has won it. Maybe we don't talk enough.

OP posts:

Original poster

manicinsomniac · 01/05/2011 14:58

sorry mcos, I've just read that you said 'monitored' in sick bay. Not mentioned. I think our school nurse would struggle to do that, I can't blame her. She's busy and there are a lot of kids trooping up and down bleeding, crying, needing meds etc. My daughter was supposed to be sleeping and she sure she as being checked on every so often.

OP posts:

unsurevalentine · 01/05/2011 16:04

Are you addressing your own eating disorder? You say you worry she will turn out like you then maybe you should lead by example?

jendot · 01/05/2011 18:44

Is there a problem with the toilets at school?? I used to hold on all day as that was where the bullies would hang out!!

Take her to the docs to check she doesn't have a water infection..could cause her to hold it for too long and then wet...

Original poster

manicinsomniac · 01/05/2011 18:46

erm, I'm trying. Not succeeding really, I've been this way for 17 years and have an assortment of 'mental health problems' (aka crap habits). I'm not acutely ill though and haven't been for 6 years. I don't look like I have a problem and I keep it very well hidden. So I don't think I'm a bad example. At least I didn't until this week. Now I'm obsessing over every little thing and wondering what my children are seeing in me.

I'm going to put my younger daughter to bed now and spend some proper time with the older one. Will talk to her if I can.

OP posts:

MCos · 01/05/2011 18:46

Op - yes, makes sense that school didn't want to make a big deal of it infront of her. Since they have spotted this, could they provide any support in having somebody qualified in such issues talk to her?

Also, not sure if this would be of help to you, but I've found that when I read to DD1 in bed (just 2-3 pages of whatever she is reading), we both relax and have little chats that we wouldn't have otherwise. I don't do it very often, I'm always in such a rush, and it only takes 5-10 mins! I do keep meaning to get that back into the routine again...

Original poster

manicinsomniac · 01/05/2011 18:48

sorry that was to unsurevalentine.

jendot, no the toilets are fine, the year 3s and 4s have their own. I will take her to the doctor if it continues to happen.

OP posts:

WearingaSunhat · 01/05/2011 18:53

"Her teacher (who, awkwardly, is a close friend of mine) has told me that she is doing it deliberately - she watched her jiggle about all through an assembly and a maths lesson, denying she needed the toilet before basically just standing still and weeing in the playground."

A close friend would find it incredibly awkward to talk about it (but obviously, cares enough to tell you).
IME, girls of this age would be mortified at wetting themselves in the playground, in front of their friends. Have you spoken to her about it?

Zooo · 01/05/2011 18:54

My friend has an 9yo DD too. Her DD sometimes wets herself because she has a very mild form of epilepsy. She spaces out for a few mins but doesn't realise that she has lost time. She also just holds it too long and needs reminding.

Your DC sounds different though (with being sick). I agree about talking to her to see if there's anything wrong. Hopefully it will pass in time.

Littlefish · 01/05/2011 18:55

I don't think you are going to want to hear this but I would be very surprised if your dd didn't already know about your eating disorder.

My mum has had eating disorders since I was about 8 or 9 years old. Nothing was ever said and I'm sure if you asked her, she would say that she hid it from me completely. She was wrong. I knew about the vomitting. I knew about the hidden food. I knew about the self harm. I knew about the depression. I knew about the starving and the food control.

Your dd's behaviour may be nothing to do with this, but I would urge you to think really carefully about the possibility that as she grows up, she is becoming more aware.

I displayed very attention seeking behaviours at time and would have done anything to get her attention including some very risky behaviours in my teens.

unsurevalentine · 01/05/2011 18:57

I am not saying you are a bad example. You sound lovely. Your DD will know though.

BeckieMum · 01/05/2011 19:02

it sounds like attention seeking, it might not be that your not spending enough time together, when i was little i used to crave my mum's attention and even though i got lots of it i still wanted more. but then again when i was young there was always a rumour that there was a ghost in the girls toilets and i used to hold in my pee all day because i was scared of going, it could be something like this aswell?

PlanetEarth · 01/05/2011 19:11

Is this unusual behaviour? A couple of years ago my then-10-yr old wet herself 2 or 3 times during a week. I took her to the doctors, he took a urine sample but he couldn't find anything wrong. A few weeks later she looked a bit pink in the face. Then my other daughter came up bright red in the face - like a rash, took her to the doctors and she was diagnosed with Slapped Cheek Disease, which apparently takes a few weeks to show.

Just saying, it could be some virus that doesn't seem obvious at the time.

Original poster

manicinsomniac · 01/05/2011 20:33

Wow, Littlefish, your mum sounds exactly the same as me. I can't believe you could tell all that at such a young age - how frightening.

I talked to my daughter (after we did her reading, thanks MCos). I asked her if there was anything she wanted to talk about and she looked a bit confused and said no. So I asked her if she was worried about school on Tuesday and she said no again. Then she said, "do you mean because I wee'd in my pants?" and I said, "well, maybe, did it upset you?" and she said " no, Auntie C was really nice to me about it, she didn't shout" Her thinking didn't seem to extend to embarrassment so I left that issue behind and I asked her if she still felt sick. She burrowed her head in my shoulder and shook her head. She did seem embarrassed then. I asked her what was wrong and she started crying. So then I decided to bite the bullet.

I said "I don't think that being sick was an accident was it honey" and she shook her head. She cried a lot and I tried not to but I couldn't say anything for a while, I just cuddled her. Then, when she'd calmed down, I just asked her why. Obviously she's just a little girl and she's not articulating very well but she said there were 'lots of butterflies in my tummy and I wanted to get them out' and 'Inside me it was all wound up tight and I needed to be sick to feel better'.

I don't know what to do, I just feel like crying. Going to go and see the school nurse first thing on Tuesday I think. We have a school counsellor but she usually only deals with our seniors (years 7 and 8). I think I might need to ask her to make an exception. I didn't see this coming at all, feel so guilty.

OP posts:

Littlefish · 01/05/2011 20:39

Manic insomniac - is it ok if I pm you in the next few days. I'm worried about you and your dd but would rather "talk"off board.

wotnochocs · 01/05/2011 20:44

'I have an eating disorder (and my daughter's teacher knows that). I'm 99.9% certain that my daughter knows nothing about this '

I'm 99.9% sure she does.i think you need to be taking her to your GP not a counsellor.

Original poster

manicinsomniac · 01/05/2011 20:58

littlefish - yeah, sure

wotnochocs - really? surely the counsellor is better qualified if her problems are not physical. And I really don't see how she can know about my difficulties.

OP posts:

MCos · 02/05/2011 01:29

OP - the good news is that you now know, and can act on it.
Good that your DD opened up to you about it.

If you don't get an exception to see the school counsellor (and surly you should!), then GP would probably be next place to try?

Good luck!

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