aibu to think teachers should

[goodbyemrschips]

to think teachers should work like the rest of us.

Just have 5-6 weeks of a year and work 8-5 mon to fri.

If this happened then they would get all the time they needed to set up lessons and teacher train etc during the time the kids were on holiday.

[this is inspired by another thread]

Arf at flouncing from the wrong thread

lol lol lolly lol

Also, one thing I don't understand about parents who moan about the holidays is that they are moaning about looking after/spending time with their own children!

I love spending time with my son (and nieces and nephews whom I often look after in school holidays). I really love that precious time and know that they will soon grow up and not want to be spending time with mummy/auntie. I would HATE 4/5 weeks off a year with my child. What are people thinking!

From a teachers pov, the poor little ones are shattered by the end of term (particularly summer and christmas) and need the holidays. They are certainly not fit for anything at school. Teachers are not a childcare sevice for working parents so what is the point of the children being at school for any longer?

ivykaty, I think you are misunderstanding the replies on this thread. Teachers are defending themselves, and quite rightly too. I'm fairly sure that they would all agree that paramedics, nurses, social workers et al have pretty hard jobs and even worse pay. Nobody is disputing that.

However, it's not exactly the doss that the OP thinks it is, either.

alistron1 - I do not know of a single call centre operative (and I know 3 so maybe that's not a lot) who earn more than even an NQT? Where the bloody hell do these Call Centre people work?

And I am an NUT basher - I think they make ridiculous statements and demand the most stupid things (e.g - every teacher should take a thermometer into the classroom with them and if it's above 24 degrees,demand to go home????).

Going on strike (proposed) because their pensions are being changed? Everyone knows that teachers pensions are MORE THAN GENEROUS at the moment. (compared to the Private Sector).

I am losing my Child Benefit soon (£1000+ per year), but I'm not planning on striking.

mumtoabeautifulbabyboy Thu 28-Apr-11 22:20:02

"I would HATE 4/5 weeks off a year with my child. What are people thinking!"

Mumtoabeautifulbabyboy - yes time with children is precious.

People work Full time for a variety of reasons, often to pay bills, often because their profession does not allow extended holidays or part time working and they have families to support!

Does your DH work full time? If so, do you have it out with him and ask him what he is thinking?

Don't assume all people who work full-time moan about teachers, and expect teachers to carry out a child care function either!

diabolo my best friend works in an outbound call centre and often takes home more than me in a month (I'm an NQT).

Admittedly, she is very good at her job, but she has absolutely no qualifications. And I happen to think I'm pretty good at my job - no commission here!

fair enough slacksally - but I think the NUT will be the next target of this Government (like the NUM back in the '80's)

moonwakjer - that is a fair point. I certainly didn't mean to bash full time working parents (which my post did do), I suppose I got caught up in wondering why on earth parents would WANT only 4/5 weeks off school term time per year.

As far as my DH goes, when my son came along (took years) he took a pay cut and went to shift work so he could have breakfast with DS and pick him up from nursery (as I am teaching so yes have to go in early and leave late - so not intentionally trying to knock working parents - woud be a tad hypocritical). We don't have a particularly nice house or fancy cars/holidays but it's worth it. We both get our time with DS.

Diabolo, it's not just the NUT proposing to go on strike, the NASUWT is considering it too (and they aren't nearly as militant) and so are the ATL (and they have never been on strike).

Which suggests that the pensions proposals are actually indeed pretty shitty.

diablo I was talking retrospectively about 'the boom'. During 'the boom' I worked in a call centre and as a bog standard operative I earned more than my teacher DP. That is why during the late nineties/early 2000's the NUTs, The NASUWT and the ATL negotiated for better pay and conditions.

And during 'the boom' someone like me who at that time had no professional qualifications took home more than a teacher and had loads of benefits.

But now during a recession we forget that and focus on whinging teachers, their pensions and how easy they have it.

I've worked in an office, I've worked in schools. I was a customer service manager dealing with complaints - pro rata I was on 30K per year (in 2001). That was a walk in park compared to what I do now as a TA for 14K a year.

Why do I do it? I love working with kids, I make a difference and I put in unpaid time because it counts. Reducing 'SLA' levels and 'KPI' targets for my previous company was way easier but kind of crap.

I'd quite like the increased pay & reduced hours the OP is suggesting, too.

Wouldn't be very helpful for the kids to be fed a lesson I'd planned 6 months previously, with no reference to their progress or needs, though.

As an aside - the LA firewall blocking youtube thing is indeed a bugger. You can circumvent it by downloading videos at home using keepvid or zamzar, although obviously if OP gets her way you'd have your feet up rather than be spending your evenings, weekends & holidays finding resources.

Alternatively (& this also works for facebook, to while away those non-contact hours) - just ask the kids what proxy server sites/unblocked URLs they're using at the moment to access blocked sites. Currently youtube.td. works for me at school

No problem mumtoabeautifulbabyboy, I just wanted to highlight that not all working parents have a real option/choice in the matter.

BoneyBack I went down the road of trying to explain the importance of teaching as a foundation of civilization on another thread. It will fall on deaf ears believe you me.

Bless. How cute. The OP really has no idea, does she.

So am I right in saying that the hours and holidays the OP is suggesting reflects what teachers already do?

If that is the case then perhaps the issue that undermines the perception of what teachers do is this idea that they are only paid for X number of hours a year and their salary is pro-rata. I admit to knowing very little about the realities of teaching but from what all the teachers have said it sounds like you all do pretty normal hours and have workloads comparable with lots of other jobs (i.e. routinely working in the evening and at weekends).

Do you think perceptions would be better if your pay structure was like everyone else's i.e. you have the same annual salary but it is for the actual number of hours you work rather than some mythical amount? Or is the consensus that the current hourly rate would need to be retained and therefore your salary would have to increase substantially?

My friend is a teacher she gets to school at 8am and doesnt get home till 6pm. And then at the weekends had to use her own time to plan lessons.

All teachers have to attend meetings, read up on the latest literature, have someone sit in their class examining how they teach.

She can only go on holiday during the school breaks which makes it very expensive. Cannot get time off to visit the doctors or dentist. Had to have a meeting with the head if she is off sick.

She spends most of the school holidays marking up course work, planning and having meetings. I wouldnt want to be a teacher.

We are paid for our directed time hours + amount of time needed to get the job done (marking, planning, assessment etc - there couldn't really be a set number of hours for this - it varies from year to year, school to school...).

The problem with people's perceptions is that they see their children off school on holiday and think that their teachers are as well. They remember their own time at school and think that that is all there is to it. They have no real understanding of the job - in the same way that I don't fully understand the role of a doctor or nurse or paramedic...

This issue doesn't crop up for most jobs as people wouldn't presume to understand all that other jobs entail. Teachers are, unfortunately, fair game.

IME the only reason teachers even mention how hard they work is because of the jokes they get about leaving at 3 and the long holidays. I have worked in many boring, repetative and easy jobs and nobody comments on how hard I work or my holidays. Teachers respond to the lack of respect by being defensive.

Yes, they're fair game, because people like the OP (who seems just a teeny bit thick to me) have been to school, so of course, they know all about what teachers do.

ilovesooty - as an aside, do you post on TES under the same username? I have posted there for years (know lilyofthefield etc). If so hello:) If not, apologies:) forums and usernames - confusing x

Someone further up said you are paid for 1265 hours per year. How many hours do you think you actually do? And how many weeks holiday do you actually take?

Wouldn't things be much simpler if your salary was more like a typical public sector job e.g. £20-30+K for a 37 hour week. It seems like the way you are paid reinforces people's perceptions that you only work 9-3 and have 14 weeks holiday a year. I don't really understand why it's different for teachers, especially when it doesn't reflect reality.

Yes, that's me.

The thing is, there are a small number of posters on MN, who want to perpetuate the myth that teachers all moan about how hard they work. So these people start a post slagging off teachers in some shape or form, and then when teachers quite rightly point out the reality of what they do, the posters get their knickers in a twist about the teachers 'complaining'. Its an age old sport, teacher bashing. Usually indulged in by resentful people i think. I couldn't be a teacher for love nor money- hats off to them, the job is far more challenging than I would care to cope with on a daily basis.

KatyH- Speaking for myself I'd say I did probably about 3000 hours a year for the few years I taught.

Difficult school, now in special measures and management taken over by nearby academy (I left it 7 years ago and it was difficult then but very exciting place to be- lots happening).