to be really depressed by the AV situation?

[greentown]

I don't feel old yet but as I was growing up, we went from an era of B&W television to colour television, from pen and paper to calculator, from having weekly letters home to everyone having mobile phones, from public libraries to the internet... enough! ,you get what I'm saying.. we've had a lot of huge, life-transforming changes for the good over the last few decades.

But when it comes to this AV referendum, I'm worried that for one, there'll be a low turnout which every future politician will use as evidence in the future to say referendums are a waste of time and so should never be offered to the people again.

And secondly, that if people don't vote for AV (even if what the really want is a vote on PR)
future politicians will use this as evidence that British people don't like change, there's no appetite for change - full stop.

And so for the rest of my natural life, we will see-saw between tory and labour, with no possibility of change ever again - all because of the "evidence" given next week. (why couldn't they have that wanky royal wedding some other fecking time?)

It's like marking out my lifetime - one moment of significant political change is possible in my three score and ten - and that's it, made me all aware of my mortality and just how short a time we're here - ah well...

mx5,

That is depressing that you don't understand AV!

And it's also not true to say that Labour is supporting the No campaign!

Imagine a 100m sprint. the 1st athlete crosses the finish line, then the 2nd, then the 3rd. the 3rd then gets the gold medal, instead of the 1st.
ridiculous isn't it! well that's how AV works!

This is just the crap propaganda that prompted me to start a thread about the twisted logic of the no campaign a few days ago.

It is not a fair analogy - it is not like a race with AV - because you have a second choice which is counted instead in certain circumstances. That is not how a race works.

And as for the BNIP etc - they only get elected if 50% express a preference for them (and no-one else is more popular). If that is the case then they would have likely won anyway - and represent the preference of the people (highly unlikely).

So why won't they offer a vote for PR??

Because more than likely no one party would win (and the big 2 have done pretty well out of the current system - they don't want to change and lose power). They would have to learn to compromise and work for the common good (rather than their own supporters). Pretty much the way the rest of Europe works (but somehow brits aren't clever enough to make that sort of system work).

mx5 - are you just spouting the drivel on the "no to AV" leaflet? That had a picture of a race with 3rd place winning.

The party with the least votes is eliminated and their votes redistributed. It is impossible that the BNP (who don't WANT AV) would get in. They would be cut out and their votes spread.

Do you understand the system at all?

And really, if the BNP win based on a % of votes, well then they have won haven't they? I don't understand the argument on this basis. I hate the BNP and all that they stand for, but using a voting system to keep political parties at bay is not the right thing to do.

The BNP needs to be eliminated, but at base level, by challenging them and what they stand for. Not with technicalities and voting systems. If they get the votes, well then, they get in don't they. They need dealing with properly, not by default.

Hear hear, Pfft

BTW, AV was used to vote for the leader of the Labour party, so they can't be agin it!

I have a feeling they use something like AV to elect the pope as well. Certainly whatever they do takes several rounds - so they must be redistributing voted from the eliminated candidates.

Not saying that is a good reason for AV per se - but just that it is a tried and tested method.

You need to

It's funny, but it's also a really good explanation of how AV works.

lol

I like the reluctant, distracted cat

most people wont vote because they truly dont have a clue what its all about

i only know a bit as i listen to politics stuff on the radio. I wont be voting for AV, lets face it as a general rule of thumb, if clegg likes it/advocates it, its got to be crap :)

I don't understand why listening to the radio means you don't understand much about politics

Why not make the effort to find out what it's about?

jojowest - that's got to be one of the worst things that an adult human being can say.

You just said "i don't know much about it because I don't care, therefore I'm voting the way i'm being told to"

it's an idiotic statement.
It's comments like that that make me wish normal people didn't ever get the vote.

if you don't know or understand, then fucking find out! don't just vote for any old option because you don't know about the reasons
what a twat.

LET VICTOR EXPLAIN IT TO YOU

i didn;t understand the system either, i'm not a brainiac well genned up on current politics, but i believe in our right to vote, our input to change things we dont beleive in and vote for things we do.

i do not disrespect the huge privilige that voting is, the history that made it so.

FOR FUCKS SAKE google is all you need - if you don't know FIND OUT there is no need to remain ignorant.

Hear, hear, nickelbabe and Custy!

Well custy, I think it's equivalent to those that say "ahh, they're all the same, makes no difference who you vote for"....which is not true but an easy thing to say that most people just accept.

or let explain it.

I am also depressed about this issue, as it really looks like there will be a NO result. I really want PR, however I will vote yes, as it indicates that at least we want change of some sort, and a small step is better than no steps at all.

The Lib Dems have let us all down, as because of their actions in supporting the Tories and facilitating them destroying the fabric of our society over the last year, any credibility they once had is lost. If Nick Clegg supports something, the gut reaction of many people will be to oppose it!

The Lib Dems acheived the right to this vote in the coalition agreement, but it is so watered down it is worth very little. Still, as I said, a YES is the best of a bad job, hopefully people will come round!

I don't expect it to get through, it's not the system of electoral reform I personally want - but I'll be voting yes.

I don't think people don't understand it- it's a very easy to understand basic system - I think people can't be bothered to try.

Mind you - electoral reform's been a pet hobby horse of mine for years since I discovered all the systems doing A-level politics (and later my degree was in politics as well), and I always picked it as the essay choice when given the option so I've done the fors and againsts so many times they're indelibly marked on my mind.

Am also pissed off with my local Lib Dems because we were getting a really cooly named new pub locally and they've whined so much it's being renamed after some local historic figure when the Staff and Serpent sounded so much better (and who's to say Mr Henry Wimpyburger really WANTS to be remembered as the local Weatherspoons).