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AIBU?

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Original poster

to be really depressed by the AV situation?

72 replies

greentown · 27/04/2011 10:03

I don't feel old yet but as I was growing up, we went from an era of B&W television to colour television, from pen and paper to calculator, from having weekly letters home to everyone having mobile phones, from public libraries to the internet... enough! ,you get what I'm saying.. we've had a lot of huge, life-transforming changes for the good over the last few decades.

But when it comes to this AV referendum, I'm worried that for one, there'll be a low turnout which every future politician will use as evidence in the future to say referendums are a waste of time and so should never be offered to the people again.

And secondly, that if people don't vote for AV (even if what the really want is a vote on PR)
future politicians will use this as evidence that British people don't like change, there's no appetite for change - full stop.

And so for the rest of my natural life, we will see-saw between tory and labour, with no possibility of change ever again - all because of the "evidence" given next week. (why couldn't they have that wanky royal wedding some other fecking time?)

It's like marking out my lifetime - one moment of significant political change is possible in my three score and ten - and that's it, made me all aware of my mortality and just how short a time we're here - ah well...

OP posts:
throckenholt · 27/04/2011 11:00

god it is depressing isn't it ?!

Original poster
greentown · 27/04/2011 11:03

BNP is just scaremongering - they won't get power under any electoral system - althought they've done alright under FPTP!

In the end though, that's not a valid objection - people are allowed to vote for whoever they like - and the aim is that if enough people are voting for someone then that voice should be heard

That Australian business doesn't factor though. We're able to make our own minds up - aren't we?

OP posts:
knittedbreast · 27/04/2011 11:05

am i allowed to email david cameron?

Original poster
greentown · 27/04/2011 11:09

only if you doff your cap at the same time

OP posts:
wannaBe · 27/04/2011 11:15

yes but iirc the turnout has to be more than 40% for the outcome to even be valid. so if less than 40% turnout, even if they all vote yes it's irelevant.

pineapple70 · 27/04/2011 11:16

throckenholt - agree

Yes, greentown, agree BNP won't get any power, but the smaller parties, such as the BNP and UKIP these days tend to be further to the right, therefore their 2nd choices are more likely to be Conservative. That is why Cameron was happy to allow the AV vote to go ahead.

PR would produce very different results.

animula · 27/04/2011 11:17

I want to join you in the "slightly saddened drinking of a glass of wine" corner.

Even the young woman personning the stand for "Vote Yes For AV" outside Tescos was telling interested people how crap it was that it was a referendum for AV not PR.

It'd bloody annoying.

But I'll be heading off to vote anyway.

EldritchCleavage · 27/04/2011 11:27

Take heart OP-on my local high street last week the NO campaigners shouting 'Say no to AV!' were met by a stream of people saying 'I'm yes to AV!'. They were looking quite disconsolate.

It may just be that quite a lot of people (like me) who do care about the issue and will vote are avoiding all debate because it has turned into the worst of the old politics: poisonous, personalised and less than straight.

bemybebe · 27/04/2011 11:39

I will be voting "no" and most people who will vote, will also vote "no" as far as I know. If the turnout is low, people have only themselves to blame.

One has to be interested in politics if they want to have any say at all in the way their country is run. Unfortunately, we all know too well that this is not the case for a majority in this country (or most countries actually).

bemybebe · 27/04/2011 11:43

Sorry, most people I KNOW will...

Lilmeena · 27/04/2011 11:44

Op; voting for change for changes sake isn't always 'progress' -
I'm not overwhelmed with the prospect of AV so will be voting against it ( holding out for PR )
One of the reasons I was put off voting yes, is because the gobshite that is Peter Mandelson is in favour of AV - so there's your warning....

Original poster
greentown · 27/04/2011 15:51

lilmeena - pleeeeeese don't hold out for PR now

you might never get the chance again if you vote no this time

AV won't be worse than FPTP and it's a step to smoothng people's fears on PR

i do believe that, in this case, any change is progress and that without this change there'll never be PR

Please don't vote with the other side - you really won't get PR more quickly that way

OP posts:
nickelbabe · 27/04/2011 15:55

I totally agree.

PR is the best option, obviously, but Av is the cloest tehy're going for now.

It's soooooo important to vote Yes on it (and actually vote, which is what I'm worried about too [csad] )
it's a bit like the way that women got the vote - the men got it first, the working class men, then women over 30, then women on the same par as men.
it's all in stages, but it's important that we keep campaigning, and taking every little victory we can, because change is better/easier in small chunks.

There is a horribly sad apathy thesse days.

nickelbabe · 27/04/2011 15:56

lilmeena - and Labour and the tories are in favour of FPTP, which is why they keep sharing power and not getting anything chagned of dealt with

Lilmeena · 27/04/2011 16:09

I don't want to vote for a system that will make it any easier for Labour to get power - I hate the way Miliband wipes away 13 years of Labour cock -ups with a casual wave of his hand and a nonchalant 'we got it wrong' - 'we need to listen to our voters more' - too right you got 'it' wrong.

I really Really, do not want Labour running this country again - so if voting for AV makes it better system for them, I'll vote no.

nickelbabe · 27/04/2011 16:25

but do you really want Tories to run it either?????

the AV system really does mean it's more likely that people will vote for who they want, rather than who they "think" will get in.

It's not Pr, and never will be as good, but it's all they're offering right now - Nick Clegg has accepted that it's the best he'll be offered until change is made, and if No is the answer, then the government will continue giving us twisted crap for years to come, becuase they know we've lost all hope and will just accept what they're doing.

Lilmeena · 27/04/2011 17:08

Thank you - will think some more.

mx5hairdresser · 27/04/2011 18:59

if we were to have AV, then a loony party like UKIP or BNP would be elected.

Imagine a 100m sprint. the 1st athlete crosses the finish line, then the 2nd, then the 3rd. the 3rd then gets the gold medal, instead of the 1st.
ridiculous isn't it! well that's how AV works!

Lilmeena · 27/04/2011 19:03

The BNP don't want AV - UKIP are in the 'Yes' camp.

animula · 27/04/2011 19:08

My feeling is that AV will be good for bringing environmental issues up the agenda. Not brilliant, but better.

That is what will send me out with my polling card.

Mandy2003 · 27/04/2011 20:18

So why won't they offer a vote for PR??

kaid100 · 27/04/2011 21:32

There are simultaneous local and assembly elections in some places so the turnout won't be that low, but I note that many people I talk to aren't really aware of the AV referendum so they might, when they see the question, figure "If you don't know, vote No". The polling figures are fairly inconclusive at the moment.

nickelbabe · 28/04/2011 10:50

how on earth would that ever happen mx5 ?

the party with the fewest votes is eliminated on the first round - the BNP always have very few votes, as to UKIP and many other smaller parties.
It makes it more likely that smaller parties won't get in.

nickelbabe · 28/04/2011 10:51

and it's not how it works.

if the party in the lead gets fewer than 50% of the votes, the 2nd choice is taken into account - from the choices on the forms from the party with the fewwest votes.
and so on.

your analogy of runners is completely spurious.

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