To think that actually folk would quite like a society where the other sex did as they were told?

[starrychime]

Don't claim to be an expert but it seems obvious to me in societies like Saudia Arabia and others it is very much a case of the males in charge. In all honesty surely men in UK or anywhere would be keen on laws which meant his children would never be taken away by an ex wife, where he had control of family finance and decisions, could be pretty sure his wife would never be unfaithful etc. Not just men of course, surely women would like the same sort of thing? Doesn't mean there is no love, respect, friendship of course but was just thinking that if you asked your partner (male or female) - "DP, would you like laws which meant...." etc etc they would have to answer yes if they were being honest. Or am I being pessimistic as to the amount of truly egalitarian humans in existence?

I think if my ex had that role we would have struggled hugely. He is hopeless with money - if he was in control it would have been gambled on idiotic business ventures that never stood a chance.

Why do you ask?

Yabu. I would answer 'no', so would my dp. Surely the basis of a good relationship is that you discuss and make decisions together, not follow some sexist set of rules. I don't think respect comes into it if you are acting in a particular way just because the rule book says so

I think there are far too many (legal) restrictions on all aspects of life these days, as it is. I am against further legislation, but wonder how on earth you think such a law could be enforced?

Actually my dh would hate that. We are both heavily reliant on running our lives and our family as a team.

Do you know any Saudis?

You mean living under a repressive regime devoid of gender equality?

Erm. .

I think my dh would be truly horrified by what you're suggesting, btw!

I'd like to live in a country where everyone always did what I said and I always got my own way.

Both genders.

of course "the other sex" could also mean the men.

DH and I were talking about this last night. It was prompted by watching the news and the various uprisings in the middle east, and my observation that in all of the pictures shown of fighting, opposition fighters, group rallies in squares, ordinary daily scenes and all the leaders, women were entirely invisible. Like there aren't any women in those countries, they don't exist.

I won't bore you with the details of the conversation but my perspective was that in these countries people are brought up in a certain way - women and children and property and of no importance. While some men fight against the inequality most of them are probably pretty cheerful about the situation. Many men seem to like "men only" situations - and get upset when they are taken away. In these countries the entire outside world appears to be a "men only" club. I don't think that most of the men there are upset about the lack of women's rights. If there was then things would be changed.

DH who has been raised in the UK felt that many many men there must be really upset about the inequality, but not quite upset enough to actually do anything... I suppose from his POV as a "nice bloke" he finds it difficult to accept the blokes elsewhere might actually behave in a horrible way to women, and that actually a lot of them must not like it at all.

Anyway.

Personally I don't think that human beings need to dominate others to feel happy. Some individuals - yes. But generally, no. But then I speak from the POV of someone who is a member of a group that is oppressed worldwide - so I would say that wouldn't I!!!

Just one of these random things that come into your head - I remember reading The Handmaid's tale ages ago and IIRC part of the story was a sort of general wearing away of women's rights, cash cards not working etc. I don't mean necessarily males taking charge, could be females. I just mean in general I think men would like the security that such laws bring, and women would like it if the laws were orientated towards them.

I have been seriously wondering recently whether life would be a bit easier if we (women) could stop trying to be people and just go back to being property. This would really only work for me if I was told to lie around chain smoking and eating pizza in between bouts of riding horses though.

Prunhilda, I don't know any Saudis, and apolgise for any offence generalisation might cause, just an obvious example. But if I was in a relationship, marriage or whatever, surely if the choice was do you want laws which are always advatageous to your own sex (be it male or female) you would have to answer Yes if you were being totally honest.

I think my husband would rather I wasnt unfaithful out of choice rather than because I was forced to.

Also him being in control of the finances would be his idea of hell. He likes me to run all that side of things and I like running it.

Yes, I like laws that are orientated to my sex.. e.g Rape to be crime, DV to be a crime, discrimination and unequal pay to be unlawful.
I would like them even more if they were implimented fully and not just given lip-service.
hth.

I don't want laws that favour my sex, I want laws that are fair to both.

Oh you didn't offend me: I was just thinking that I once had the privilege to get to know a Saudi family here, an academic and his wife and their children.

The husband talked quite a lot about it and he wasn't that happy, actually. He felt his wife's life was limited and was glad to come to Britain so she could have more freedom. He wanted to be able to hold her hand in public but she refused!

He was keen for me to know that the glitzy impression we get is nothing like reality (eg he said there was one hospital they always publicize as being the standard for Saudi hospitals, v clean and modern, but it's nothing like most hospitals). Also that oppression of males is common, just not necessarily Saudi males: they have a LOT of immigrant workers. I got the impression he felt quite guilty being a man but also exhausted because he had to work so hard - they weren't rich - and perhaps with rose-tinted specs though that a Western lifestyle was fairer on men as well as women.

(One person's view so I assume not representative of a whole nation.)

I would quite like a society where everyone regardless of sex just did as I bloody told them and didn't argue with me.

That sounds ideal IMO.

I'd rather be in a society where my DH was faithful to me because he wanted to be and vice versa. If DH was only with me because his parents had arranged it and the law stated he had to be faithful then to me he would be more of a prisoner than a spouse.

Call me a woolly liberal but equality, tolerance and mutual respect is very important to me in society and in my personal life.

Hecate, I would live in your world. [bugrin] Can I be your deputy?

Whenever there is a ruling class and an underclass, there will be rebellion and strife. Doesn't matter if it's women or men in the ruling class.

The only thing that will stop it is equality for all. End of.

Morloth - that is called Queen of F*ing Everything (too early for swearywords) as I saw on a mug I thought about getting for work once!

God no - I think most people would hate that, tbh. If (say) the laws were all in favour of women, I'd feel furious that dh was treated as a second class citizen, and that my ds would be too. DH feels the same as me - I think that most people gravitate towards fairness, all things being equal.

Do people actually say 'end of' in real life like that?

Habbibu, I know that most people I know would opt for a fairer world, but there are loads of people who regret the passive of all sorts of oppression
I mean, we have a government which is actively encouraging a further lack of equality...

Yabu...it would not work....such a massive imbalance in either direction would cause extreme discontent and unhappinss which wwould display itself in various social ways.