To think this is too much to ask of 7/8 (yr3) year olds?

[emkana]

about a topic, read relevant books/websites, digest the information, then write about the topic (seven subheadings to cover) using all your own words, plus illustrate appropriately?

Totally agree with BoffinMum's analysis of early years provision/expectations.

This is why I went for a childminder who could provide a home-like atmosphere. I didn't care two hoots about targets, observations and Ofsted.

They start school later in other countries because what they do at nursery is what is done in reception/yr 1 in the UK.

Dd started at just 6 and was the youngest in her class bar one. Most were already about to turn 7. They were taught to read and write cursive within a month (because they'd already been doing the basics at nursery) and now, in yr 2 she is expected to do about 3 hrs (average) every afternoon. At the moment they are doing division in maths, drawing to scale in insert-whatever-subject-that-is, comments on poems with intro/main body/conclusion in language and stuff about evaporation in science. She has already done one project similar to the one in the OP, but had an afternoon to do it in. Research different living accomodations all over the world and make a presentation of at least 6 different ones orally, and in writing.

Tbh, I used to be very wtf about kids still being in nursery here till they were nearly 7. Now I understand why it is.

The whole nursery/school distinction is a red herring. What they do at 8 yrs old in the UK/Germany/France wherever is more or less the same. It's just done in a different year or even in a different school bracket.

I don't think most countries are as obsessed with targets and standards for young children. My six year old does basic reading, writing, addition and subtraction, fairly simple stuff. And Irish. But he's not tested and examined and graded all the time like they seem to be in the UK.

Omg BoffinMum for PM! I agree with every word. I've always thought the same.

"There actually isn't a lot of evidence for starting kids at school at the age of 4 (I can't think of any, actually). Only evidence about the provision of high quality nursery education helping children from disadvantaged homes do better in later life."

In France, where 99% of children go to école maternelle aged 4 and 5 (and 95% go aged 3), the children that do not attend école maternelle, which is not obligatory, are almost guaranteed to repeat the first year of primary school.

"The whole nursery/school distinction is a red herring."

Absolutely agree, Bucharest. A total red herring. The order in which skills are taught is not necessarily the same from country to country (and this is true right through school), and different emphasis might be put on different subjects and skills, but at a similar age children do things that are equally challenging from one (developed) country to the next.

Quite agree with Bonsoir. People often say "Oh in Scandinavia they start school at 7" with the implication that they've spent their first 6 years making mudpies in the garden with Mummy, and meet their first pencil at school, when of course they've almost all been in group care from a very early age, in a state system which is designed to lead into school.

Also as regards targets etc, I think in furrinland they have just as many, but the systems are not as open to negotiation and touchy feely with the parents being involved and told at every step of the way. The education authorities just get on with it. Similarly, parents just assume (maybe naively?maybe foolishly? maybe sensibly?) that teachers know that what they are doing is the right thing, the best thing, for 99.9% of the children.

Dd has (Italian equivalent) SATS next week or the week after and I tell you, the teachers have been tearing their hair out and hothousing the kids, training them up with alarm clock races etc since the beginning of March.

Thread is digressing from original project work question, but is interesting nevertheless.

The plural of anecdotes isn't data. Nobody has found much in the way of proper research evidence to support school at 4, as I said. If you'd like to point me towards the literature that tells us otherwise, then I'm happy to be proved wrong.

BoffinMum - You might enjoy "L'école à deux ans, est-ce bon pour l'enfant?" (éditions Odile Jacob)

Is that peer reviewed? Sorry to be a research snob, but it does make a difference.

It's a bunch of child development specialists collaborating on the same book (destined for le grand public).

Has it been independently reviewed though, or have all the authors read through their co-authors bits and said 'yeah that sounds about right'?

With regards to the OP, I would say that is fine for a project to be done over a half term, maybe set just before the holidays to be handed in just before the next holidays as that gives plenty of time to do it, but a bit much to be done in holidays as they are, to me, down time to decompress.

DS2 is 10 and in Yr5. His only homework over the Easter break was to produce a report on 'what I did in my holidays'. That was it. There was no list of requirements and the format etc was entirely up to them. He chose to type and print his and include photos of the bigger activities we did. The girl next door hand wrote hers and did pencil illustrations. The girl over the road hand wrote an essay with no pictures. All were fine and all of them were told they were good work and each got a merit award for them.

That sort of homework project is great in my mind, because it allows the child to express a bit of individuality in their presentation and it probably makes it more interesting for the teacher to mark as well! Not to mention the fact that it probably kicked a few parents into actually doing stuff during the holidays, rather than leave the kids stagnate in front of the tv as no one wants to be that parent whose child turns in a scrap of paper that says 'I watched Power Rangers and Ben 10 and Merlin and..."

You are getting the wrong end of the stick - I didn't say it was peer reviewed research to prove anything, I said BoffinMum might enjoy it (given the topic).

That's very kind of you Bonsoir. However I have written peer reviewed stuff in this area, however, so I must plead expertise of my own here. There's a lot of polemical literature out there but invariably it only says what will sell to middle class parents.

If you were to peel back the layers of what is going on in France you would probably find a number of additional variables at work, such as social class, female education and employment, local or regional childcare provision, birth prematurity, social construction of schooling, provision of additional tutoring, possibly even gender, and so on. This means the age of starting school can't be considered the sole basis for determining likely levels of academic attainment because, as ever, human being are very complex beings with lots of variables and things are not always as they seem at first appearance.

BoffinMum - I am not quite as naïve as you seem to think about the country I live in and I was suggesting you read the book for a laugh about how your French peers can (seriously) debate such a silly matter.

Aaaaaaah, I might well, in that case.

On the pro-early school (reasonably early school) I interviewed a fascinating Headmistress recently. She runs (indeed, set up) an English-medium international school and has pupils from all over the world as well as having taught in different systems and being incredibly knowledgeable about all the English-medium curriculum choices on the global market. She is a firm believer in starting reading and writing at Reception level because she thinks that the earlier and more gently children start literacy, the greater their chances of not coming across an intensity-of-learning stumbling block. Every year, many, many French children "fail" the first year of primary (CP) which is notoriously dense. Bright children keep up fine; children who aren't so bright and perhaps just needed a little longer, and a little more repetition, of the basics, can stumble. So sad to be labelled a failure so young in life.

That's all to do with allowing the concept of 'failing a year', when there should perhaps be more flexibility, particularly when children are very small.

It's more to do with trying to teach children to read and write in a whole class setting between September and April, with no flexibility whatsoever!

Some DCs make it, others don't. But they cannot proceed to the next stage unless they can.

With this type of project a couple of sentences under each heading with a drawing would be enough.

For those who aren't comfortable about leaving the DCs online by themselves you can create a separate user account on your PC. Under the new account, if your firewall allows, make a white list of sites that can be accessed.

We often start at the woodlands website. Lots of useful information & links.

I'd say yes for an able year 3 but with some parental guidance.