To think all couples should be required to do a pre-marriage course?

[WriterofDreams]

I'm Catholic and before you can get married in a church you have to do a one-day pre-marriage course during which counsellors talk you through the big decisions you're going to have to make as a couple around money, jobs, where to live, children etc. DH had talked about most of that stuff already although it did throw up some points of argument discussion for us and overall was quite useful. I noticed during the course that some couples were getting quite irate with one another and it was clear some of them had never even considered these really important issues. I also know one couple who broke up after the pre marriage course as it became clear their priorities were completely different - they were spared a divorce.

AIBU to think that all couples should be made to attend a course like this before marrying? It shocks me how often I have heard people about to embark on one of the biggest commitments of their lives without ever having discussed the really important practicalities. I know it wouldn't solve all problems but surely it would highlight points of serious disagreement before it's too late?

dh and I went one one of these as a condition of marrying in a Catholic monastery church (that was eleven years ago, before I became strident confident enough to defy his bloody mother and my family and say "I'm an atheist")

it was three days, at a retreat centre in the Wye Valley

you were encouraged not to talk to anyone except your partner unles absolutely necessary, and no talking at mealtimes

little white beds with wooden crucifixes nailed above them

there were "seminars" where we all sat on plastic chairs and listened to Catholic couples whose relationships were deemed "successful" to the point of exemplary

there was a couple in their early thirties who kept crying and squeezing each other's hands as the recounted painfully how they had reached various "compromises" over sex, the children, schools etc - you could see that the strain was killing them and what they really needed was a good old fight

there was a couple in their sixties - husband wearing neatly pressed work shirt and slacks, wife very much a churchy flower woman type, big billowy florals, fake pearls etc - the memory of their "testimonial" that sticks in my mind is her describing how "sometimes, when Gary is washing up, I might cume up and just rub myself against his leg, to let him know that I am feeling....intimate"

they were at great pains to impart to us the generosity of God in allowing pleasure to come with so functional and sober an act - "it's like a nice little present really"

Then there was the priest, who started off lecturing sternly about abstinence and the need for the woman in particular to practise self-discipline - it's woman's innate sexual savagery that leads to AIDS and unwanted babies btw, not lack of birth control

he droned on for about an hour and ended up rubbing his hands and making a misty-eyed speech about how overwhelmed he constantly was by the beauty of women, and how clever God was for managing to somehow re-route all that sizzling sexual energy into a sort of generalised philanthropic love for each and every one of his parishioners

it was fucking HIDEOUS.

At the point of marriage though your views on children, jobs, mobility etc might be different to how you'd feel 10/20 years on. The only important thing to discuss before marriage is that nobody sits on the sofa all night after work and watches the other one cook, clean, launder and tidy.

littlepig are you having us on? That's outrageous! Maybe in our great-grandmothers' time but not now!

hocus

To be honest, I think the topics to be discussed are topics to be discussed in a relationship anyway, especially if living together and if having children together. Marriage is neither here nor there.

For example, how can a couple live together without discussing finance?

Damn, missed my opportunity to do a [bugrin]

No I am dead serious

they also isolated ud for portions of the day and made us write copious letters to eac hother about things we had done to hurt each other, things which had damaged trust, things we felt we disagreed on - and then read them out to each other infront of the whole group, who then proceeded to dissect and analyse us

it really was foul

there was a ceremony at the end as well, where we had to light a candle together as a symbol of our love

the couples whose relationships had been obliterated by the weekend's snoopfest had to come forward and put their unlit candle into a box

I still can't believe it really

oooh, and the priest said that having sex during the woman's period was offensive to God

weirdo

littlepig

we really do need a emoticon

It's an interesting idea, though I would think that if a couple were taking such a course, they'd already have decided to get married, maybe have announced it to friends and family, would they really call it off if 'points of disagreement' were identified in the course? Seems more likely they'd just think 'oh it'll all work out somehow', and go ahead anyway, which wouldn't really be an improvement on the current situation.

Also when people get married these days it's very often the case that they've been together for a number of years, own a home together, have children together etc. So really it would already be 'too late' for them to extricate themselves easily from the relationship, and not at all clear that it would be better for them to separate if they discover differences. Maybe better to have a pre-moving-in-together or pre-having-children course instead!

Would also question the value of a 'getting to know each other' type course for couples who have been together a long time, DP and I have been together about 10 years and we've always talked and discussed and debated a LOT on all kinds of issues, there are no forbidden subjects. It's not at all unusual these days to get married after many years together.

\link{http://www.engagedencounter.org/\this is the one we did}

YABU. I think it's a bloody awful idea. Certainly when DH and I were married, we'd already managed to discuss home, family, finances etc.

And as for being 'spared a divorce' I can't imagine that made the split any less painless or heartbreaking for that couple at the time.

YANBU I agree with the idea. It doesn't seem to come across as a teaching thing more of a work shop where you have to talk about major issues. I don't think it should be mandatory as there are couple who have discussed all this stuff but for some young couples i think it would be excellent. It would re-enforce the idea that marriage is more than just a big day and a bit of paper. I don't believe that married couples are more committed than co-habitees but if you do believe in marriage it would help really understand that level of commitment. Im not religious but believe in marriage, me and DH always had our plans and talked about these kind of things but if it had of been available to us i would have done it, marriage to me is two people sticking to each other for life and crossing all the bridges of children, houses, career, pensions etc together and it is important for you both to know you are both on the same path.

YABU it means nothingin the long term. I went on one and it didn't stop my XH being abusive, leaving me and then punishing me ever since.

Its not a bad idea for couples to discuss important issues though.

YABU, if you're not on the ball enough to talk it over yourself, that's your problem. No one is forcing you to get married.

I admit I'm biased as DH's useless priest insisted on coming to see us several times to talk to us about marriage - he succeeding in pissing me off, making DH irritated, and convincing both of us that what we really wanted from marriage was for other folk to butt out of our business!

We got married fourteen years ago and did a marriage preparation course as part of a Govt pilot by the Lord Chancellor's Dept - apparently this is because keeping couples married (happily) obviously reduces the cost and stress of divorce.

I actually found it incredibly helpful. I am intensely private and would have run from the room screaming if we'd had to share, but it wasn't like that at all. We both discussed things like our values but also our background, our expectations of roles, upbringing, and some very interesting points about how we managed disagreements. Fourteen years on, we are still together, and generally don't have major bustups as we talk through things, although we're obviously not perfect. One of the things I found fascinating for instance was for us each to talk about how our parents managed money and financial issues while growing up - it's surprising how much of an unconscious blueprint this provides. Since then, we've coped with multiple moves, studying, infertility, numerous job changes, cancer, and a whole raft of other issues while still on track.

Definitely something I would wholeheartedly recommend.

If i wanted advice on marriage a catholic priest would be the first person i turned too, after all they have so much experience of these things... [sceptical]

As I said a couple of times tyler, my course was run by relationship counsellors, not a priest. Obviously if the couple were getting married in a secular ceremony they would not be counselled by a priest.

It surprises me though that people can get to the point of marriage without having discussed these sorts of things in general conversation....rather than in a 'let's sit down and discuss these issues' kind of a way.

Surely most people have plenty of those drunken all-night conversations when falling in love with someone?

So it's just me who brings marriage, kids, money etc up on the first date? I admit a first date with me is a bit like an interview (was a bit like an interview, I don't do them anymore).

When I married DH I had known him 2 years, we had a baby and he had been made redundant. As his sister begrudgingly said, if we stay together through that, that we would probably be OK. If you are going to do a pre-marriage course you should have to do a pre-marriage health check too.

What? No. Don't be daft.

It's a nice idea, but it ain't for everyone. I for one will not be sharing my thoughts on such matters with a 3rd party and I reserve the right to have no opinion until such matters arise.

YANBU

I think the course should be encourage but it would be difficult to make it mandatory. The idea behind it is very good though.

Although many posters on here were well prepared for marriage and the challenges it presents, not everyone is.

'surprising number of people go into marriage without ever having had a serious discussion about finances or children'

So? Who are you to judge whether this is a bad thing.

You are marrying the other person, not their finances or their children. If you care about those things enough for it to get in the way of the love of the other person then you will probably make sure you have discussed them before marriage, if you don't then you'll probably not bother.

I did one as they are mandatory here for a catholic wedding,still ended up divorced tho,so really no help