to think about shopping my 'cousin' to the DSS?

[AdelaofBlois]

Have just had a visit from my partner's cousin, who seems to come round in the school holidays for some cheap childcare. She revealed in the course of conversation that her children's much vaunted scholarships to private school were in fact paid for by her landlady, who also pockets her HB but doesn't charge rent, and that her 'genteel jobs' (nannying, jam making) are bringing in cash-in-hand while she claims benefits. So, basically, she's living in a lovely village, kids at private school, doing nothing much, and claiming huge amounts of benefit fraud. Which seems all the more inexcusable given the standard of living.

Personal annoyance is making my fingers itchy near the phone. But IWBU, wouldn't I, it's just jealousy?

And ultimately I'll go back to an earlier point-I think it is fraud, and that is the basis on which I am examining my conscience. Assuming I would be anonymous, If I report it and it wasn't, fair enough, that is not a grounds for thinking about my reasonableness since I believe absolutely and on reasonable grounds that it is.
Am I actually making myself liable to prosecution by writing this?

Oh dear, you are tying yourself up in knots over it. :(

I used to work in benefits so I would say it is very clearly fraud based on what you're able to tell us. It's up to the local authority to prove it.

As to whether or not it is reasonable to report her....I think it is but that's easy for me to say because I don't know her. Would it help to know what would happen?

If the authority think there is a case and they have the resources, they will do a bit of investigation and probably interview the landlady and the cousin. It may be your cousin will admit the fraud, she'll get a slap on the wrist and have to pay back the money. She may also get a fine of around £300. If she doesn't admit it, it could go to court. If found guilty, she'll most likely get a suspended sentence, a fine and have to pay back the money.

It sounds to me like the landlady is being put upon as she is not getting rental income, paying for the kids school fees and possibly unknowingly committing benefit fraud.

The cousin sounds like she is able to make a living for herself so I wouldn't worry too much about consequences for her. I can understand your concern for the kids but state schools aren't all awful and kids are adaptable so they'd probably be ok if they had to change schools.

I know it's an awful dilemma but I guess it comes down to whether you think it's ok to break the law in certain circumstances. I suspect if you don't report her, it will continue to rankle with you for a long time.

She'll never pay back the cash now, she's been living there for years and it can't be less than 500 a month. I'm not sending her to prison, end of.

The kids might very well keep going to the school any way, and I work in state schools, so I know they're not bad...

"The point is, though, it wouldn't advantage anyone because she is entitled to the benefit. It might make her landlady unwilling to continue, uproot the kids, cause all kinds of upset, and mean the benefits were now spent on rent, food and what was really needed. That would be 'fairer', but it wouldn't free up the money for anyone else, in fact it might just add another name to the council housing list."

Exactly what I was going to say after reading your OP.

She's a twat but just leave it at that. Take solace in the fact that you know she is a hypocritical idiot and she essentially owes you big time as you could have but did not point out her fraudulent and hypocrytical nature to the authorities.

She wouldn't go to prison as she has sole care of her kids. She'd just have to pay back a set amount each week. It could even be taken out of any ongoing benefit entitlement.

It's interesting reading different people's responses and justifications for their behaviour.

Personally I'd rather know my taxes were going to the people who really need it rather than the people who make fraudulent claims. I don't want to be paying extra tax for those who think they can get away with stealing. Just like I don't want to pay extra car insurance for all those idiots who drive without insurance or pay extra for supermarket goods because people shoplift.

Ok back to basics.
Always say please and thankyou
Look both ways before crossing the road
and don't believe everything people tell you

In what way is it fraud? The landlady allows the cousin to live in the house and HB pay the landlady rent on behalf of the cousin, who is entitled to benfits owing to be unemployed and a single parent. What the landlady chooses to do with the rent is upto her.

Cousin is also able to do 'odd jobs' without effecting her benefit so long as she earns no more than £20 per week. She is also allowed to recieve 'gifts' such as the dc's school fees without effecting her benefit.

If this nice lady wishes to feel part of your cousins family and wants to help them out, why is that so wrong? Poor woman is probably lonely and you want to shop her for fraud. Jesus. Next time I feel like doing someone a favour I won't bother.

what Dooinmecleanin said. I am continually shocked by mumsnet. so many horrible, spiteful people.

Well technically it's theft. Housing benefit is paid to people on a low income to help them pay their rent. If you don't have to pay rent, you can't claim housing benefit even if you have no income.

In this case, if I've understood correctly, the cousin is only pretending she has to pay rent in order to claim the housing benefit.

I suppose we don't know if the landlady is aware the cousin might be making a fraudulent benefit claim, so DooinMrCleanin could be right by saying she's doing the cousin a lovely favour by allowing her to live rent free.

At the risk of being flamed, I don't see why it's nasty and spiteful to report someone for breaking the law. I mean the cousin, as she seems to know exactly what she's doing.

I need a new landlord.

gallicgirl- its nasty and spiteful because the OP doesn't know why the landlord has chosen to help the family and because it is not against the law for someone to pay another person's school fees or to gift them money. it is an act of kindness. If you report them, they may have to move- the kids lose, the parent loses, the old lady loses. Just because you are jealous and spiteful. For what it is worth I am a landlord and frequently give my tenants a month off paying rent/turn a blind eye to late payments etc. because they are struggling to keep their family afloat in a very harsh economic climate. wanna report me too? I am not committing fraud, I am gifting them a small amount of money from time to time which helps them keep their heads above water. the OP is nasty and spiteful and she should mind her own business. If you people are so worried about people on benefits why dont you do something to help and put all this negative energy into a project that will help people out a bit? open a community project, volunteer to do something with families that are hard up and you might learn something.

Technically she is paying rent - an agreed sum of money goes directly to the landlady each month. I cannot imagine that HB would be paid where there is no legal rental agreement in place. As so many other posters have pointed out, what the landlady chooses to do afterwards with what is then her money, is completely up to her. I think any investigation would be hard pressed to come to any other conclusion, particularly if money given to your cousin is cash. If the landlady is a lonely elderly woman on her own, she might be getting a lot out of this arrangement too - a surrogate daughter and grandchildren. Why begrudge her or your cousin that?
I think the only dodgy ground here is earning on the side - however, as this is also likely to be cash in hand, this would be very difficult to prove.
In short, you run the risk of causing a lot of upset, uncertainty and trauma, particularly for the children most likely for nothing.
I'd leave it alone.

If she's on benefits she has a duty to declare any 'gifts' she receives in cash. So if she's not doing, and having her benefit reduced for it, then she is commiting fraud.
Along with the cash in hand jobs she is doing it seems like she is getting a substantial amount in her hand each month in addition to her benefits.

Yes proving it may be tricky. Or it may be fairly easy if she's getting lax and blabbing to people about it. But it's not for her to prove so it doesn't matter either way. It's for the DSS to prove should they decie there's a case to be looked at.

It is theft - regardless of whether the cousin should be paying rent, she isn't and so her hb is being used to fund her lifestyle.

I do not understand the attitude that life is crap on benefits so don't report fraudsters (OP's words). Life is crap on benefits not least because there are so many people claiming what they are not entitled to!! How is it fair that there are some families really struggling, and not claiming a penny more than is due to them, when this person is receiving money each week payable from the LA under false pretences? She doesn't have to claim the hb. She could claim other benefits if due and these could then be used to fund her lifestyle. Like honest people manage to.