Do I owe them anything? Long, sorry.

[DontOutMeIfYouKnowMe]

Namechanged because someone might be on here. Please don't out me if you think you know me. Sorry it's long and rambly, I'm just not sure it'll make any sense without background.

A few years back, before I got together with my now DH, he was absolutely skint and, because he was waiting for a work permit, couldn't legally get a job. Some friends of his who rented a house had a small spare room and kindly offered to let him stay with them rent-free. It was incredibly kind as they knew full well he might be months before the work permit came though.

About two months in, I came to live near them. I was in a right state as my nasty ex had just left me high and dry and I'd moved to a new city where I knew nobody. A mutual friend put me in touch with the household as they were nice people. Their approach was to ply me with lots of alcohol and tell me that they had open relationships which were vastly superior to the kind of monogamous relationship I'd just come out of - again, they were being very kind, albeit slightly odd. I slept with a couple of the guys, decided the open relationship think was, to put it politely, a crock of shite, and got on with my life. My now-DH (emphatically not into the open relationships!) took me out for coffee and we got together a month or two later.

About 6 months into our relationship I was getting the feeling that this household weren't very keen on me being around when I came to see then-DH, and I put it down to them being a bit strange about us having got together. I asked one of them and he said he actually had been wanting my boyfriend to move out for a while, but hadn't liked to say anything. I was a bit mortified on my boyfriend's behalf as I felt he'd overstayed his welcome and I felt he should have realized that it was a very long time to stay with friends. One of the other house members then insisted he was still welcome as long as he liked, but I was moving myself and DH and I decided to move in together.

Still with me? Sorry!

After a couple of years DH and I got married, invited the household. One of them said he 'felt weird' about seeing me and wouldn't come (he is a bit of a strange guy). The other two rang us on the morning of the wedding to drop out.

I don't personally feel I owe these people anything. I think, as it happens, that they are quite fucked up and unhappy, and don't like seeing me and DH being happy. However, I've now heard that they have been saying that I owe them for putting up DH and that it was 'rude' of me not to move in with him the first week we got together. I should point out I was a student living in digs for the first 6 months of DH's and my relationship, so this wasn't remotely an option, even if we had been stupid enough to move in together on the strength of a one-week relationship.

Should I ask DH to offer them some very belated rent money? DH has debts into the thousands but we (read I) could afford to pay something if they wanted - I just feel they've taken a kind gesture and then been really rude because things didn't turn out as they expected. I'm really confused as to what my responsibilities are here.

They so don't have the moral high ground and neither you nor your DH owe them a red cent. Seriously. If money had been the real issue, one of them would have raised it in the ground rules when you first moved in or around that time. As several other people have said, this isn't about money, its either about sexual favours or some weird psychological guilt trip shit. Walk away from it and ignore them. They may not have abused you in any meaningful sense of the word and you may not have been terribly damaged by it but whatever else they were, they weren't friends.

Lawm - as far as I know (I've not asked him obviously as it'd let the cat out of the bag), he doesn't know there's been any suggestion of us owing money. But it is quite possible hints have been dropped and he's missed them - he did spend months living in their house without realizing one of them at least wanted him to move out and didn't like to say so!

I think DH is a soft touch, basically. He reckons they're his friends and what they get up to in private is their business. He was hurt when they didn't come to our wedding but his automatic reaction was 'oh, they're busy, what a shame', whereas mine was 'fucking cheek!' since their excuses were exceedingly flimsy and basically amounted to 'got a better offer, nah na ne nah nah'.

I think DH is being too innocent and I would personally want to clear the air - I've had a few comments from people who'd clearly got the wrong end of the stick, but mostly this circle of people are his friends not mine.

dittany - I care about DH getting hurt and I'm worried that people are saying things behind his back or spreading rumours, and I'd rather clear the air. I wanted to know what the opinion on here was, and if people would tend to think we ought to have given them money for the rent. It seems ridiculous to me that after such a long time they're still twatting around and my personal preference in these situations is to say how it stands with me without fucking about. DH's preference is to think the best of everyone. Hence me wondering what to do.

"Basically it sounds like they think you owe them a fuck. But they know they can't say that straight out so they are calling it money instead."

I very much agree with the above statement and also feel that they are jealous of your relationship with your DH. The fact that you guys had this monogomous and still happy relationship in the midst of their orgy fuelled lifestyle probably made them feel insecure. As in, you highlighted the huge deviation from the norm that their lifestyle is/ was and it made them unhappy and insecure about themselves and their lifestyle. Especially as you had been somewhat a part of it and then turned your back. They are probably being defensive.

You don't owe them anything. Just let them talk nonsense and don't worry about it.

Oh and do you live in a very small town or something?

I would just cut ties with these people.

"So do you think I should get DH to talk to them about it all, clear the air,or maybe give them some money for the old rent so we can't be seen as beholden to them any more? Or do I just leave him to get on with things and hope he doesn't hear that they think he owes them money?"

Yes, I do think he should talk to them and find out why they boycotted your wedding and why on earth YOU are liable for DH's rent when you had only just started going out with each other and you were a student in digs, ffs.

No, I DO NOT think you should give them money. But I DO think you need to talk to your DH and find out if there is anything more that he hasn't told you about. If these are his friends who are talking, he's likely to have heard more.

Also just because people are talking about you and DH, it does not mean they agree with the other couple. Seriously, it's really unethical to expect money after all this time and people are not fools. They won't automatically take the other person's side.

I don't think you and/or your DH have any responsibility to give them any money.
But I do feel a bit uneasy about your knowledge that there may be some expectations from them in terms of back-payment, but you are not sharing this info with your DH.

I'm not for one moment suggesting this is an inbalance in your relationship or something that isn't 'right', more that you are not giving him the opportunity to either feel obliged to pay (when he is financially able) or tell them to get over themselves and refer them to their original generous offer of free accom.
This is his situation to address, with you as his spouse in support. Its not for you to deal with on his behalf, although I understand that you don't want your DH to be disappointed with his friends. Maybe if you tell him what you know (have heard) it will encourage him to take off his rose tinted specs and see these friends for what they are. Then you can distance yourselves from them with no qualms or backward glances.

I don't think it was that orgy-fuelled LDN!

Initially, I assumed from what they said that they had people they slept with - never saw any evidence for months that they actually did sleep around with anyone, so I suspect it was talked up a storm but not really happening much in practice. I know the married guy had previously had a 'primary' partner and a 'secondary' partner (poor girl) and they were all very chewed up that the 'secondary' had left him ... I got confused after a while. I am pretty confused as to what exactly they were/are thinking.

dittany, I think you might be right. It's tricky to me - they're adamant that she was happy at 15, she was very mature, etc. etc. Certainly he is not very mature. DH's stance is that you can't judge someone else's life. I don't know how far you can go with that, you know?

Btw, I don't think it's about me fighting his battles - it's about him not knowing or not noticing there's anything going on. He's just very, very placid and always assumes people are friendly unless they actually say they're not.

Oops, cross-posted. Sorry, slow typer here.

LDN - yes, small town. Annoyingly so. Everyone knows everyone. People I don't know tend to know of me - and I'd rather they didn't know me as 'that woman who owes so-and-so loads of money'.

MoFo -

Lawm - I don't want to deal with it 'for' him (though I am irritated that he didn't want to deal with it at the wedding and think he's being too generous). I just wanted to ask on here so I could get my ideas together. We do talk about things, it's just good to get outside perspective too. The only mate I've talked to about it in RL is the girl who introduced us, and she thinks that they are a very glamorous, loved-up couple who were very generous to DH (she is, as I say, sweet, but also quite innocent). I did wonder if, given there are two RL people saying they were generous and lovely, maybe I was being stingy and unreasonable.

Ha Ha! So they had a FAILED orgy fuelled lifestyle! Oh that is so sad. No wonder they are treating you like this, not only did you walk out on it, but your rejection would have further highlighted their failed attempts to actually have this lifestyle and made them feel even more insecure.

IMO anyway.

You owe them nothing but if you allow yourself to feel guilty enough to pay them money for the rent they didn't want, you will encourage the mind games they are playing with you.

I've no tolerance, whatsoever, for people who don't tackle things directly but instead, hide behind third parties. If they'd wanted rent they should have piped up at the time. I suspect this is all some sort of malign and irrational jealousy and I'd keep well clear.

Well, call me a cynic LDN, but I'm not positive I've ever heard of a successful orgy-fuelled lifestyle!

The girl who introduced us is lovely and I would usually trust her judgment, but I think she rather idealized them as a great example of post-feminist sexual attitudes when it's actually all a bit grubby. It is one of the things that got me interested in feminism, really.

"Actually the married couple got together when she was 15 and he was 22, and in my opinion they're not very healthy mentally."

That's not mentally unhealthy, that's sexually abusive, predatory and illegal.

(quoting dittany)
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I met my first husband when we were the same ages as that, and I thoroughly resent and refute your accusations. Our marriage was a very happy one. How dare you say such a thing.

Because he got together with her at 15 and taught her that it's normal to shag around?

They got married because they love each other, and had a big white wedding followed by a pagan handfasting ceremony. Their relationship is rock solid and god forbid you question it or the immensely feminist implications of it.

Why does anything need dealing with?

You don´t owe them money, they´re not friends as they didn´t care enough to come to your wedding.

Forget them & move on.

"Well, call me a cynic LDN, but I'm not positive I've ever heard of a successful orgy-fuelled lifestyle!"

LMAO!

"The girl who introduced us is lovely and I would usually trust her judgment, but I think she rather idealized them as a great example of post-feminist sexual attitudes when it's actually all a bit grubby."

A lot of this kind of hyping things up happens at uni when everyone is super idealistic. I hope you don't regret it though, I don't think you should and hope no conservative posters make you feel that may here.

Careful, I did know that this thread might be uncomfortable reading for some. But ... it was illegal for you and your DH to have a sexual relationship at that age, wasn't it?

"Everyone knows everyone. People I don't know tend to know of me - and I'd rather they didn't know me as 'that woman who owes so-and-so loads of money"

Oh please, please PLEASE get your DH to talk to them. You need to talk to him and then he needs to talk to them.

They can't go around blackening your name, damned orgy-dodgers.

By the way, this thread plays into every stereotype I have ever believed about small towns, ie that they are hotbeds of curtain-twitching and weird sexual activities

diddl - I'm trying to work out what I want to say to DH and if I want to talk to these people on my own behalf. I feel that after so long, they shouldn't be telling people we owe them money.

I do feel increasingly uncomfortable about the situation - the more I talk about them on here the more I do feel cross that DH is happy to be friends with them, actually.

I dont really even understand why you even give a shit??? you are married, and happy, they are not your friends, and you dont owe them shit

something is missing I suspect, agree with what dittany said you should distance yourself 100% from them, NOW