Normal 9 yr old behaviour or am I am crap parent OR are they just little sods?

[BoysDrivinMeMad]

I have 9 yr old twin DSs and the following behaviour is pretty usual for them:

Screaming, fighting, punching and generally attacking each other for the slightest thing.
Namecalling, shouting and arguing.
Running round (they literally make me feel dizzy) any store we go in, touching and picking things up, sliding down the aisles on their knees .
Will not go to sleep in evenings as constantly mucking about (have tried separating them but they run between the bedrooms).
Messy eating, slapping lips, slurping (hilarious to them), leaving crumbs in every bloody crevice in the house no matter how hard I try to get them to eat at the table (talking snacks here, meals we eat together obviously).
Have to be told constantly to get ready in the mornings/when we are going out, i.e. upstairs supposed to be getting dressed but I will find them lying on the floor reading or colouring.
Have to supervise their nightly baths as they will cover the floor and all surfaces with water sliding down the back of the bath!
Have 'lost' both of them on occasion as they will just wander of and not look where we are going and will not be able to find us.
Jumping on the sofas/beds and a special favourite of mine - standing on the back of sofa and divebombing it while I am sitting on it!

This behaviour would be pretty normal for 3 year old say, but 9 year olds? None of their peers seem to do this and when I walk around a shop and see other kids walking round nicely with their parents looking at mine like they are in shock, I just want to cry.

Now they get told off and punished for all this behavior so it's not like I have always let them do this, it's just like a bloody groundhog day all day everyday. They have very good diets, in fact the 'worst' one eats a LOT of fruit and veg as that is his favourite food. Dh sometimes says that it's because I am a vegetarian and while pregnant with them, they did not get enough protein in their brains (am starting to wonder now)!!!! Neither of them have SN btw.

I'm sorry, I've got 3 boys and that is not normal behaviour...and I don't think anyone who tells you it is, is being particularly helpful.

Don't shout at them. Difficult, I know but shouting at 9 year old boys just goes in one ear and out the other. I'll hold my hand up here and admit that I didn't always follow my advice but actually, what used to really get to my sons was a quiet discussion about how disappointed they'd made me.

OP I had 3 sons in 35mths so by all reasoning they are similliar to your boys. It's not an excuse, sorry.

You have to be strict - seriously, get the book I recommended up there and remember who is in charge.

A agree with worra.

Come on OP grab your parenting horns and go get em!

i think society sees it as frighteningly normal behaviour in boys tbh. ridiculous.

it's one of the reasons i'm pleased that the kids are moving school in the summer. here that sort of behaviour is viewed as par for the course (for boys), which i find really difficult. i'm sure that if a couple of girls started rolling on the floor whacking each other or karate kicking each other as they walked past in the corridors there would be parents summoned to the ht in minutes few. it does seem that more boys have excess energy at this stage (hormone surge?) but it's not an excuse for violence or lip.

i always recommend a trampoline for boisterous kids, ob of whatever sex.

DH takes them out on bikes at weekends and we walk quite a lot at well (did a 5 mile round trip this morning as car in garage). They have been on the trampoline (12ft) everyday now the weather's nicer as well. They have had a large trampoline since they were 4!

The inclination to do a lot of that is normal, I think - and my observation of DS's cub pack is that a lot of 9yos seem to get away with it - but no way would I (or DS's school) tolerate it.

I can entirely understand that twins = at least 4* the hassle of one, but I think OP's twins sound largely out of control.

I would agree with lots of exercise (meaning 2+ hours a day of vigorous exercise - rugby definite a good option) - this is what DS's year (Y4) get at school and the transformation of some of the little monsters from Y3 (when they did far less sport) is remarkable.

I used to fantasise about tying them to the back of the car and driving at 20 mph for 10 miles. They would probably have loved it.

divide and conquer - if they can't behave together, they can't be together. I realise that is logistically hard - but I have been known to banish my DC to opposite ends of the house (and to keep putting them back there) - or one outside, one sitting on the stairs - whatever, they can't be together until they can behave. Similarly if they can't agree on film/activity/snack/supper/whatever, they get nothing. Teamwork kicks in remarkably quickly.

oops. rogue '*'s - sorry.

The exercise and tiring them out is all good but in reality they should both be equally able to sit quietly and complete a jigsaw/read or something quiet. That's a really important life skill, not just endlessly being on the move.

How on earth do they manage their homework op?

PS the book reccomended on page one is brilliant, Raising Boys.

I have a 9 year old boy and you describe him to a tea!! although he does tend to behave when in shops etc...i have always thought there were an underlying problem with his behavior,almost think to myself a child of mine who has had the upbringing he's had shouldn't behave the way he does and it frustrates the hell out of me,he has rules and consequences he just doesn't really take it in and it all repeats again and again!! the only reason i haven't sought help is that i can just about handle him and don't want him 'labelled' and couldn't bear the idea of medication,i'm getting better,consistent,good diet,lots of exercise and thats all i can do, so i do deep down think that although this behaviour isnt 'normal' its defenitly very common, and yes more so amongst boys (for those who say boys are not different don't have any idea) sorry i work with kids and have many years experience!!

p.s i have a 6 year old who does SOME of the above but no where near as bad,is it a pfb thing or boy thing or twin boy thing or just were rubbish mothers??????? who knows

so if you have atrampoline, every single time they jump/ dive bomb the sofa, you remove them from the house and shut them on the trampoline. clearly you have the resources at your disposal

and if they behave nicely for everyone else, they are definitely testing your boundaries. soooooooo, the only solution (parenting horns) is to make sure your boundaries are rock solid.

get them to draw up the house rules (no jumping on the sofa etc)

and you police them. with a taser.

is this an easter hols out of routine glitch btw? mine (girls and boys) are always bouncier in the hols - just a naturally higher state of excitement about life, i think.

but get them to draw up the rules, def. that was serious.

two days ago i asked my eldest two (11,9) to clean the family bathroom (it was a pit). which they did, with some supervision and direction (and a bit of moaning, to be fair) and when i went in that evening, they had (as well as cleaning it, yay) written up a list of 'rules for the bathroom' which was propped on the shelf.

no leaving clothes on the floor.
rinse the sink after use.

oh, and some others. i hadn't asked them to - and we're only a 'rules' type family if there is an issue. i thought it was really interesting that as they had cleaned it themselves (instead of dh or i cleaning up after them) they had taken it a step further on their own, taken some ownership of the situation, and worked out how to maintain it.

(obv so they didn't have to do it again lol, i haven't broken it to them that's not how cleaning works )

but maybe give them a bit of control and see where they go with it too? so more of a meeting to discuss behaviour with input from them. they are well old enough.

but yes, a taser.

The main things you need to address i think is the physical fighting. just zero tolerance. take away ANY privilages until they stop fighting completely. Make a list of the behaviours and tackle them one at atime with total zero tolerance.

find the thing that DOES hurt them to lose and stick to it.

Boys-are-like-dogs-and-need-constant-exercise!

I have 2 boys of 9 and 6 and whilst they can be boisterous there is no way I would let them behave like that!

I think you have to be much firmer and point out the consequences of their actions. Mine love being timed to do things.

Set the timer for 3 mins and see if they can get dressed before the alarm goes off.

Snacks resulting in mess = no snacks

No more baths - have showers instead.

If they dont go to bed quietly and sensibly then there will be no computer/TV/DS the next day.

Pick-your-battles and decide which is most important to you. Messing about at bedtime is a nogo area for me. Water on floor at bathtime no big deal to me but what makes you most cross?

Mine have been under threat all week that if they cannot get on with one another then they will alternate at the school holiday club which they really do not want to go to as children they do not like go! They have been angels most of the week.

I have 2 DS and they are very lively children too. Its very easy for people to say 'more boundries' but sometimes children are just extemely active. My boys are quite often how you describe. They are not 'naughty' but just far too full of energy and very confident!
I have started reward charts to combat some of this behaviour and it is working a treat during these holidays. I have put a mixture of things on there - some easy to achieve some really hard.
Choose the couple of areas that upset you the most and tackle it. Oh and internet shop because the stress isn't worth it

Screaming, fighting, punching and generally attacking each other for the slightest thing. - normal

Namecalling, shouting and arguing. normal

Running round (they literally make me feel dizzy) any store we go in, touching and picking things up, sliding down the aisles on their knees . - unacceptable at this age

Will not go to sleep in evenings as constantly mucking about (have tried separating them but they run between the bedrooms). normal in multiples

Messy eating, slapping lips, slurping (hilarious to them), leaving crumbs in every bloody crevice in the house no matter how hard I try to get them to eat at the table (talking snacks here, meals we eat together obviously). unacceptable, they're old enough to eat properly.

Have to be told constantly to get ready in the mornings/when we are going out, i.e. upstairs supposed to be getting dressed but I will find them lying on the floor reading or colouring. - normal to a degree, but I'd be expecting more effort at this age

Have to supervise their nightly baths as they will cover the floor and all surfaces with water sliding down the back of the bath! Normal, but unacceptable. Perhaps having the clean the bathroom properly after themselves will help cure that situation

Have 'lost' both of them on occasion as they will just wander of and not look where we are going and will not be able to find us. - Absolutely unacceptable

Jumping on the sofas/beds and a special favourite of mine - standing on the back of sofa and divebombing it while I am sitting on it! - Absolutely unacceptable

Some of this is specific to multiples and sounds very familiar, but you do need to get a lid on it and start with some consequences, like having to leave the table if they cannot eat properly. I'm quite strict on my boys, and have been told too much so occasionally, but I have to be or they start acting daft. I have 12 year old triplets.

Yep split'em up, if they can't play nicely together. Do they have their own bedrooms? If not is it possible to rejig things?

As for the supermarket tell them they will have to walk next to you holding on to each side of the trolley if they can't behave and mean it and do it if they play up! Maybe a sweet at the end too, if they help.

ps I have ds (12) and dd(8) honourary boy

School holidays are hard

I have 10yr old and he has been challenging in the past but he doesnt behave like this.
Even my 3 & 5 yr old arent that bad - yes i do have to shout sometimes but i would not allow this behaviour.
As for your dh - talk about pass the buck - tell him to step up and help - trying to blame you for not eating meat is the most stupidest thing i have every heard

I understand the name calling and the bickering though - mine do that constantly but not the rest

I'm sorry but punching and attacking each other is not normal!

Violence is not tolerated in this family by anyone. The boys have learnt this from a very early age.

can I second madwomanintheattic's idea about getting them to set some rules?

If things get out of control here (dcs are 6 and 9) I call a meeting. We sit down with pen and paper and I outline the problem/issue and everyone is allowed to have there say and come up with ideas to solve it. I write down every single comment or idea even if they are ridiculous and then once we have run out of ideas we go through them one at a time and discuss whether they are reasonable solutions or not.

It doesn't always work, of course there are times when one of them will come up with a ridiculous suggestion (eg. issue - arguing over what channel to watch on tv. DD's solution was that DS just turns his back to the wall and closes his ears if he doesn't like her choice. DS's solution was for us to buy another TV and put it in his bedroom. I then have to calmly explain why neither of those is going to happen ). On the whole though, it's great for calming them down as they have a reason to sit and they know they are going to be heard and that alone is often enough to diffuse the situation.

It might not work for you and your DTs but I thought I'd share it in case.

I'm a strong believer in involving your children in sorting out issues and getting their positive input. If all you do is make YOUR rules for them you get nowhere constructive since they've actually got no "ownership" of the problem. Which is why I second madwoman and mckenzie's suggestion of getting your children to set some rules.

I had 23 months between DS1 & DS2, and I do recognise a lot of what you are saying, but when they were a bit younger. I would second those who say that you must be very, very firm, very consistent, present a united front with your DH and just do not tolerate bad behaviour. Put them in different rooms if they misbehave, and if they won't behave in public, then treat them the way they deserve, ie like 5 year olds.

As for the wandering off and sliding etc, ask them, do they want to have to wear reins or arm straps like toddlers, as this is what I told my 2 when they were doing the same thing, and meant it. They soon realised that they would have to wear the reins if they misbehaved, and the thought of being walked to school in them soon sorted it out.

Another thing that I found was that they both needed mental stimulation as well as physical activity, are they like this because they are bored sometimes do you think?

But I still remember (with a smile now) the time that I caught my 2 dragging mattresses from all the beds down the stairs. They were 8 and 10 at the time. When questioned, they were going to put the mattresses in the garden under the bedroom window and then jump out of the window to see if they bounced like they did in the cartoons

Firstly not a boy thing, friends DD's are exactly like you descibed, and I think DS would like to behave htat way secreatly if he was allowed.

The going to get dressed and getting distracted I think is pretty normal, DS is like this (he 6yo) and I just repeat, get dressed now please, count down the time til we leave, and then do it. He knows now 'I'm leaving in 5' means just that.

Also the wandering off because something takes their eye, I always laugh that it seems DS knows where he is so forgets I need to know too.

Fighting, probably a sibling thing, but the boys around here all play fight armies etc at the park so probably normal.

I would solve the shopping one by giving the boundaries, walk properly around the shops you go to park on the way home. If they don't they hold your hand.

I don't allow, and never had allowed jumping on beds and furniture so DS doesn't most the time do it.