Cyclists killed and seriously injured on roads.....spmeone is being unreasonable

[GabbyLoggon]

Big news in todays independent.(and elsewhere)

They say 230 cyclists are killed or seriously injured on our
roads every month.

Really? I would like to see those figures broken down to serious injury/death
The report says HGV drivers are often involved.

Cycling is becomming more popular here

Just because I don't like the behaviour of a lot of the cyclists I come across, does not mean I drive like an idiot. Tailgating is something else that winds me up! As is middle lane driving!

I don't see how you think I'm an unsafe driver tbh from what I have posted, and I don't see how you come to the conclusion that I would care more about my car than a person in an accident. When I mentioned a dent, I was actually thinking of the cyclist that left a huge scratch all along the side of dh's car because he wanted to get to the front of a line of traffic and couldn't wait. This would also be the cyclist that then rode off and was able to cause substantial damage to someone elses property on the roads and get away with it scott free because cyclists don't have to have any visible means of identification.

If things like that were made fairer, I would have no valid reason to get annoyed at cyclists. But until they are, I feel I'm completely justified in getting annoyed at them. And as annoyance at cyclists is very common and I'm not on my own with this, there must be something to my points.

I think that maybe the people who drive and hate cyclists do so as subconsciously they know that they are not 100% in control of their vehicles at all times and they worry that they might kill a cyclist. This hatred and "they've got it coming" is a pre-emptive strike to lessen any guilt they might feel if something actually happened.

I am aghast at anyone who has 'an annoyance with cyclists'

They are more vulnerable than you. Give them a break.

The French love cyclists, we should take a leaf out of their book.

I cycle and drive. I wear a helmet as I know 2 people who had nasty accidents, not of their own causing, and ended up with a damaged helmet and completely undamaged head. In poor conditions I wear a reflective jacket.
I never hug the kerb to let cars overtake, as I have always been told that is the easiest way to get knocked off, and when driving I try very hard not to get frustrated when I can't overtake a cyclist!
Generally, I think I cycle like I (and many others) drive - a few minor indiscretions when I judge it to be safe and I will get away with it. Not saying this is right, by the way, but just being honest. And when cycling I do generally try and think as if I'm driving a car - so all road rules apply.
But there are always going to be tossers who drive/cycle badly and someone will get hurt - the cyclist, no matter who was in the right.

I think drivers should have to retake their driving test every couple of years and have an eye-test every year.

This thread is truly fucking depressing. LOTM, bubble et al, I wonder how you'll feel about it if/when your kids are out there on bikes. I sometimes wonder of I'm being overly paranoid about the brutish ignorance of some drivers, but your comments make me realise that actually the roads really are filled with twats.

bubblecoral it was also the way you commented that you didn't mind slowing down to overtake correctly attired cyclists. Which creates the impression that you think the rest are fair game. I just think its better to drive with the attitude that you might cause an accident and want to avoid it at all costs, than with the attitude that other road users get on your nerves and you are better than them.

I wonder if the lack of brainpower in drivers who overtake cyclists and turn left is similar to that in the drivers who try to overtake when you stick out your arm to signal turning right? (or even the fools who try to do that when you are indicating, in a car, to turn right into your own driveway...)

SardineQueen Exactly, it's victim blaming at it's worse. It the same mentality as people who blame women for being assaulted. "oh, they're just asking for it..."

I drive and cycle (offroad mainly) but spend most of my time on a motorcycle. The courtesy shown towards cyclists in this country is appalling. On several occasions I've intervened in incidents involving blatant bullying and intimidation of cyclists; strangely when scary butch leather-clad lady on massive Triumph gets involved people tend to back the fuck off :)

I am aghast at anyone who has 'an annoyance with cyclists'

im aghast every day on my way home, at the muppets on bikes who go down the hill at speed and straight through the red lights, every single day without fail, that is the honest truth

honestly, if they have no care for their own safety, really why should i?

I dislike cyclists for a few reasons;

1) they never use the said bike lanes/paths where I live.
2) they rarely wear helmets
3) they jump red lights or decide to "pavement it" for the said red light
4) they don't pay insurance and therefore when they cycle like morons and get hit it'll be MY insurance forking out for it.
5) They don't pay road tax and therefore should not use the roads.

1. Cycle lane use is not compulsory; moreover, most cycle lanes are crap cycle lanes.
2. Helmets only reduce injury when speeds are below about 12mph; average adult cyclist speed is above 12mph. Mandatory helmet use leads to more cycling injuries per km cycled (weird, but true, and repeatedly demonstrated).
3. Inexcusable. Just like when motorists do the same thing, or overtake on zigzag lines, or speed thru pedestrian crossings, park on the pavement, etc. Not that any of that is supercommon too, of course
4. They often do have 3rd party insurance, I think? CTC membership provides for it.
5. Irrelevant on so many fronts: "Road tax" goes into general taxation, not ring-fenced Road tax doesn't come close to covering the social costs or maintenance of roads & road transport I pay road tax but rarely drive; I walk & cycle instead. I reckon I'm subsidising all the heavy road users.

A car turned right in front of me, leaving me for dead and badly injured.

I was cycling carefully in broad daylight. The driver just wasn't 'seeing' me.

All of my friends who cycle have been knocked off, varying from broken arms from cars pushing bikes into railings, to turning left in front of, opening doors as cycling past...just not looking out for cyclists.

SardineQueen I understand your point and the evidence I cite is purely anecdotal; I still think they should be worn. To choose not to wear a helmet for the reason you give is putting the responsibility for your safety onto other road users - and also assuming the only cause of fatal injury while cycling would be a collision with a car. A cyclist could be injured for other reasons like hitting a pothole or swerving to avoid an obstacle.

And it worries me, too, that there's so much hate out there for cyclists. I'd be lying if I said that as a driver I'd never been faintly irritated by slowing down for a cyclist. But I always do, and let them take their time because that is my husband and my children's father out there on the road every day.

And as for the 'road tax' argument, despite it being bollocks on it's face - roads were here a long time before cars; you do realise that the lowest emission cars, such as the Prius and some versions of the VW Polo and Ford Fiesta also don't pay any VED? Should they also be banned from the roads?

My ex-boyfriend nearly got knocked off his motorbike by konnie huq

I don't cycle but my dad and brother do. I find it so depressing that the majority of the people on here would respond with a resounding "And?" if one of them were killed.

Of the "they're all asking for it" brigade no-one has commented on any of the individual stories posted on this thread or in the news stories at all. No-one has said that the stats are worrying or shown any concern whatsoever that there are 3000 cyclists a year being killed or seriously injured, the impact on their families and so forth. That is a lot of misery. This idea that it must all be the fault of the cyclists (people never drive cars dangerously?) and the absolute refusal to see them as individuals rather than a group of hated others, is really worrying.

Look at the stats for pedestrians killed and seriously injured by motor vehicles every year. Are they all asking for it too? Or are people able to accept that many of them are killed because drivers aren't driving as they should be? And if you accept that, then - it must be the case that there are bad drivers that kill pedestrains but if they hit a cyclist then it is the cyclists fault? There is a logical disconnect there.

bubblecoral - you are likely to do a cyclist some serious damage one day. You'll probably be proud of it too.

This bit - 'choosing to hug the kerb' proves to me that you have never ridden a bike on the roads and that you have no idea. Hugging the kerb as you put it puts a cyclist at risk - dodgy drains and uneven kerbs are likely to throw a cyclist off track and into the path of inconsiderate drivers like yourself.

Yes dearyme we gotcha. You won't be calling 999 for an ambulance for anyone, any time soon. Bully for you.

betsy I don't have a view on the helmets thing one way or another, I was just repeating the opposing argument that I had heard after I read your post. If and when my children start cycling I'll read the stats etc and see what I think. And then they'll cross the path of someone like dearyme or bubblecoral and be killed anyway.

The bizarre thing about the cyclist-haters out there is that they sPeak about cyclists as if they are some sort alien species. Do they not know any cyclists? I'm hard-pressed to think of a family member or friend who isn't a cyclist.

I have to say that I have seen this attitude about pedestrians on here too. There was a thread with people saying that if people didn't cross the road quickly enough for the drivers liking then they liked to drive at them.

There are just an awful lot of dangerous aggressive people around and when they're behind the wheel they feel invulnerable and they like to bully more vulnerable road users, often in ways that are very dangerous.

Be proud of it? Really? What a stupid thing to say

I don't want to be put in the position of being responsible for someones death or injury simply because they aren't surrounded by a metal box like I am when I use the road and haven't made a mistake. That's all. If a fellow driver makes a mistake, we might crash but we have the benefit of seat belts, air bags etc. If a cyclist makes a mistake and we crash, someone ends up hurt or killed.

If the mistake is mine then the responsibility is mine regardless, but at least the likelyhood of serious injury is likely to be lower to another driver than to a cyclist.

So basically when you're in your car you don't want anyone around who isn't also in a car, because they are more vulnerable. So you don't want any motorcycles, motorbikes or pedestrians around you when you are in your metal box.

That is your problem, not theirs. If you feel that you are a danger to others when you are driving then maybe you ought to consider another form of transport.

SardineQueen i think it's people who feel insecure using the car as a prop to assert themselves and dominate people who they see as weaker.

I see the same unpleasant trait in myself sometimes on the (motor)bike - the ability to intimidate others can be addictive. It's something I have to think about everytime I put on leathers :(

About as stupid as your attitude BC. Listen to yourself - you think it's unreasonable to have to wait 5 minutes to overtake. You object to having to slow down. Your time is much more important than another person's safety it seems.

And I'm sure it's been pointed out but there's no relation between paying VED and the 'right' to use the roads.

This thread is incredible! Just lately, some voices of reason... the point is that drivers kill thousands (literally) more pedestrians than do cyclists - it is very rare (but not totally unheard of) for a pedestrian (or anyone) to be injured by a bicycle, but cars and lorries kill pedestrians and cyclists every day. The point is that cyclists are generally risking only their own safety if they cycle badly but motorists endanger us all and therefore should be held to a much higher standard.

Some of the logic just loses me utterly: it's "not fair" that cyclists jump red lights, or choose not to wear helmets ERGO it's okay for other motorists to be annoyed, to drive impatiently as a result and to sometimes to kill them. I paraphrase but WTF????

Cyclists are vulnerable road users and should be treated with respect and care. There is also a responsibility on government to provide better road and vehicle engineering solutions (eg compulsory wide view wing mirrors on HGVs).

In any case, it tends not to be the light jumping semi pro cyclists who are killed but, proportionately, it is predominately women cycling too timidly and being squashed by lorries at junctions :-( Surely nobody thinks that is a good thing, or any way acceptable, or indeed anything other than tragic?

There is a campaign to help stop this kind of accident, called "see me save me":

road.cc/node/32179

Please support it.

Bubblecoral you need to have a good think about your attitude. Yes, lots of motorists also, like you, shockingly think they own the road because they are safely encased in a metal frame. This does not make them right.