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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

To feel uncomfortable with this

70 replies

Myinstincts · 09/04/2011 23:11

Have name changed.

My FIL is very touchy-feely with my 18 month old DD. He strokes her tummy, her back, face, legs, just everywhere and it makes me feel uncomfortable. He always feels the need to take her out of the room when we visit, when they visit or if we go out. He says stuff like "does DD want to go outside/upstairs with Grandad?". DH says he just wants to show her new stuff. He also keeps asking her for kisses and he kisses her on the mouth but I know that I personally don't like people kissing children on the mouth so that may just be my own bugbear.

I wonder if I'm over-reacting because I have had fallings out with him in the past and maybe I'm letting this cloud my judgement but on the other hand I feel that the fallings out have been excuses not to see him which were really down to this uncomfortable feeling I have about him.

Am I crazy?

OP posts:

ShatnersBassoon · 10/04/2011 16:36

Kissing children on the lips isn't weird is it? I do it all the time with mine, so does their dad, and my parents. We're not snogging them, just giving them a peck on the lips. It's never occured to me that people would think we're oddly intimate with them

I don't think anything described in the OP is strange. My parents love giving our children cuddles, tickles, strokes and kisses, like they did with me, and my dad loves taking them off to look at things in the shed or whatever.

I suppose it just depends on what level of physical contact you're used to. My husband's family are the opposite of mine, and never give kisses or cuddles, but to us (DH and me, and the children), they're the strange ones!

mamatomany · 10/04/2011 16:37

I would let him out of my sight, it might all be perfectly innocent or not, err on the side of caution. I never understand this wanting to get the kids away from their parents and have them alone or to themselves which some GP's seem obsessed with. But if they want any chance of that time alone they need to earn the trust of the mother or father, it's not automatic.

mamatomany · 10/04/2011 16:37

wouldn't

MarianneM · 10/04/2011 16:46

I don't think there's necessarily anything sinister in what he does, but I do think grandparents should not behave with their grandchildren in exactly the same way as the kids' parents do - they are NOT the parents. This winds me up too. My dad is very tactile with my daughters, and especially as he never was affectionate at all with me it feels weird.

bristolcities · 10/04/2011 16:48

beanlet I do realise that I also realise that OP would not have posted on AIBU if she had 100% courage in her conviction and didn't want people's opinions.

JiminyCricket · 10/04/2011 17:33

Some people don't have good sense of boundaries...someone I know once got into big trouble with this - 'tickling' a grandaughter and the other grandaughter said she saw him touching her sister inappropriately (obv these weren't her words)..it was years before I knew him but my professional opinion is that he was disinhibited due to his mental health condition and possibly medication. I think what I'm saying is that it might not be malicious, but is still not appropriate or necessarily nice for the child (who mostly hate being grabbed by grandfathers in my experience). Hard to tackle, I am not sure what I would do but initial thoughts are I would be inclined to make a firm point in front of him (and his wife? if relevant) that 'especially in this day and age it is not seen as ok for any non-parent to touch a child except a quick cuddle, a kiss on the cheek or head, holding their hand etc, and that you agree with that view. You can also say firmly 'I'd rather she stayed downstairs please'. And I don't know much about it, but I imagine there is a full spectrum of people who are offenders, which includes those who openly show affection and those who are more circumspect. Instincts can be wrong, but they are worth listening to.

CrapBag · 10/04/2011 19:31

Always trust your instincts. My nan has always told me this and I always follow it. If you are wrong, you are wrong, but if you are right and ignore your instincts......

ashamedandconfused · 10/04/2011 19:57

what crapbag said

i have never told anyone this EVER - there was a guy at church used to give me the creeps - called himself uncle X and always asking the girls for a (full frontal) hug - I was about 12-13

I did not like it
I have no doubts now as an adult that he was aroused by what he was doing and it was masked as a harmless friendly old grandfather figure TRUST your instinct

Journey · 10/04/2011 20:08

You need to trust your instincts. The wanting to take her out of the room when he visits is a bit off. I agree with CrapBag.

Original poster

Myinstincts · 10/04/2011 22:07

This is the first chance I have had to come back since last night.

I know lots of people are fine with kissing children on the lips but I'm just not, it's not something I did even to my parents as a child and I haven't seen DH's family do it to anyone, except FIL to my DD. I did actually mention to DH before that I didn't want anyone to kiss DD's lips and it seemed to stop, especially since DD has become old enough to decide whether she wants to give kisses or not but recently I have noticed FIL repeatedly asking her for kisses until he gets one and he goes in for the mouth. I have just said to DH again that I don't want FIL kissing DD on the lips, DH didn't see when it happened again yesterday.

I haven't seen him ever be touchy-feely with MIL so I wouldn't count the amount of physical contact that he has with DD as normal for him. I think that if I brought up the stroking thing, DH will think that this stems from the fallings out I had with his father before or worse, think that I'm accusing him of being an abuser.

I'm not sure whether to follow them out of the room when he wants to take her with him or just say no, she's fine where she is. Either way I think I'm going to look crazy but I'd be heartbroken if something WAS going on and I didn't protect my DD because I was afraid of looking stupid. This is so hard because I cannot compare his behaviour with DD to his behaviour with any other child since she is their first GC. God, DH is sitting near me looking at photos of them together on his laptop and it is actually making me feel sick.

OP posts:

tattycoram · 10/04/2011 22:13

I really would trust your instincts here, if you looking at a photo of the two of them together makes you feel off then something is really not right here. It is quite possible that he is making your daughter feel uncomfortable at some level too, even if she is too little to really be aware of it at the moment.

I would definitely do the interrupting at odd moments thing, and I would also stress both in private to your daughter and loudly, in front of your inlaws that it is really up to her who she kisses. And then I would back her up and make sure that she isn't going along with kisses etc not to hurt your fils feelings as she gets older.

Horrible for you

Loonytoonie · 10/04/2011 22:26

You're in a terrible situation, but I would go with your gut instinct.
My Dad is hugely tactile with my DD's - he just adores them.But his kisses are to the tops of heads, and he wouldn't dream of lip-kissing.

Is it at your house you see them? If so, can you have random piles of laundry or items needing taking upstairs to hand? If it's their house, then I'm not sure what to suggest.

MirandaGoshawk · 10/04/2011 22:31

I wouldn't feel happy about the repeatedly asking for kisses & not giving up until he gets one. How old will she be before he listens to her? 16?! Agree with tattycoram that she might be going along with this so as not to hurt his feelings, (or be thought rude).

It seems to me that you are going to have to spell out to your FIL where you think the boundaries should be. Or, better, your DH should. Might be awkward/embarrassing, but is necessary.

maighdlin · 10/04/2011 22:37

Personally i think yab a tiny smidge u, but my family is quite odd when it comes to touching, very little outside of private areas would be considered inappropriate. people say we are like a family of monkeys.

with regards the GCs my dad is completely mad about them. he is always touching them, their legs, arms, backs, bums, but thats just what our family is like. he takes my DD upstairs out the garden and to the end of the street etc. being honest i would find it weird if he didn't do it. he loves children and would give his life for his GDDs.

reading this thread i actually find it REALLY disturbing people think its wrong to kiss a child on the lips, even relatives! today my DD has kissed 10 relatives on the lips! I cannot imagine never kissing my DD or my neice. I know my family can boarder on weird but that is fecking ridiculous not allowing people to kiss your child!! Its like a psychiatrist cliche, "my mother never kissed me as a child". I forecast many adults with intimacy issues.

tattycoram · 10/04/2011 22:40

It's not what he's doing it's what the OP is feeling. I would never ignore my gut instincts in a situation like this, never.

EllenJane1 · 10/04/2011 22:42

Gosh, that's a hard one. My dad was a touchy feely parent and grandparent and I never had a moments doubt about him. He would take my DS1 upstairs to look at my old coin collection or just to tell stories. I am 100% sure he was just a lovely man.

My maternal grandfather, however, used to catch me in the hallway and kiss me on the mouth. Horrible, I hated it.

It could be completely innocent, but you need to make sure it is.

MrsTittleMouse · 10/04/2011 22:48

I never saw the man in my childhood do anything inappropriate. There was just something about him that made me very uneasy (without even having the knowledge or maturity to know what that uneasiness actually was). This isn't about what he is doing, it's about Myinstincts following her gut instinct.

We are all brought up to be very polite and not rock the boat, and to avoid confrontation at all costs. Particularly if there is no hard evidence like this case. And I think that women are the most hard-wired for this - we are trained, almost, to swallow down our instincts and be "nice". And this is one reason why abusers get away with it. :(

redvelvetmooncupcake · 11/04/2011 10:26

Exactly Mrs TittleMouse - I just came back to the thread to suggest The Gift of Fear by Gavin de Becker, he talks a lot about submitting to unwanted attention to "be polite" and listening to your instincts.

Ephiny · 11/04/2011 10:53

I find it very odd that relatives kiss each other on the lips - but I know this is normal in some families, and doesn't indicate anything 'wrong'. Personally though I just can't imagine having that level of intimacy with anyone other than DP, and it would have been absolutely unthinkable in my family when I was growing up. All the touching and stroking would annoy me as well, because she's a person, not a toy or a pet, but that's just my perspective and in some families people are a lot more tactile with children.

I agree about trusting your instincts though if you really feel something is not right.

TheSmallClanger · 11/04/2011 11:00

MrsTittleMouse and CrapBag both give good insights.

Can you ask your DD what it is they do out of the room? Is she verbal enought to explain yet? I don't mean interrogating her, just having a chat about grandparents and things?

Dad used to take DD off to show her things, but usually they remained in view in the garden - normally it was things like birds' nests or an interestingly coloured toad. Normally, this would be followed by DD showing me or DH the nest/toad/whatever.

I remember becoming aware of my spidey sense as a girl, and I have tried to teach DD to recognise it, and take note of it. I don't think you are being U.

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