To agree with some of the cuts being made

[lesley33]

Obviously I mean cuts being made by the Government. I have been reading stories in the press about some of the cuts being made that have examples of people who will suffer because of these. Some I don't agree with, but with some that you are obviously supposed to sympathise with I think, well thats fair enough cutting that. Fine in an ideal world, but hardly a necessity.

For example, I totally disagree with cuts to speech therapy and physiotherapy - always seems to be undervalued when it comes to public funding.

But some charging for services to disbled people seems fair enough. Lots of these services such as a local bus pass that gives free transport to disabled people came into being before DLA. But now DLA exists, surely this should be used to pay for things like this?

Also read stories about people not getting DLA in spite of disabilities. Lots of people don't seem to understand you get DLA not just because you are disabled, but because you need help with everyday tasks such as bathing, cooking, etc. If people don't need help, then no they shouldn't get DLA whatever their disability.
AIBU?

Ignorant point OP, you have no idea what you are talking about.

I have never ever said I agree with cuts to DLA and on the contrary have said I think DSA is an important benefit.

If I had said that DLA shouldn't be given to people with disabilities I would understand the insults. But I have never said that.

You do not understand how it is administrated.

If my OH said he could walk they would take his car off him. He can walk, physically he can walk. But he cant walk because it hurts and he is wobbly. If he had to get out of a fire he could do it though.

That is enough to be turned down for DLA.

IF you knew about DLA you would know that.

No but you did say it covers every need that arises due to disabilities its not that much.

True Lesley but none of us own threads and IMO it's important that things related to threads are clarified when they can be- it's important to get the stats out there.

TBH, it's often occurtred to me that I would far rather the chance to pay for teh summer club than lose it altogether: we don't have much for sure but the ability to donate what we can woudl be appreciated. We know our family is an expense; we won't claim DLA for ds4 if he qualifies (unless ds1 lost his....) and we would wish to attempt to support services before we have to lose them.

Am not sure about bus charges; never bothered to get our pass as we use buses maybe two or three times a year. But I suspect if you were travelling a significant distance to a hospital daily or similar then your DLA would be eaten up bloody fast! If I could catch bus to ds1's SNU (luckily taxi ptovided, but there is no bloody bus anyway!) it'd cost me 2/3 of the DLA. Which never stretches far enough anyway (not a complaint- know there's no more money- just a fact).

DLA is not one I'd particularly target.

There is a huge issue around teh country of local authorities cutting services but keeping high paid staf and pointless roles like countryside walks co-ordinators - they have hierd 4000 new people . A head line today 4000 jobs created as councils cut their serviecs and suggestions left wing councils before the local elections are ensuring they cut things for political reasons to ensure a swing against the coaliton.

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/8440079/Non-jobs-gravy-train-rolls-on-for-councils.html

"The research show that in total, 205 councils have created a total of 4,148 new posts since May 1 last year.

Most have reduced their overall staffing levels during the period but the study found that while doing so, many have continued to create brand new roles for "communications officers", "equality officers" and "climate change staff".

Councils have also recruited dozens of workers to enhance the "wellbeing" of staff and "customers", as well as "life skills" experts, who teach members of the public basic tasks such as ironing.

The figures also reveal a boom in such jobs as "walking coordinators", "obesity strategy officers", and "active" workers, whose job is to encourage the public to pursue more healthy lifestyles.

• At Anglesey, where no party is in overall control, 48 council jobs and 16 teachers are to be cut, the authority has created new posts for an "age friendly communities" manager ? to make the island a better place to live for older residents ? a walking and cycling officer, a "community conservation" officer ? to run "green gym" schemes, where people are encouraged to create community gardens and plant trees ? and an "Energy Island" programme office administrator, to promote renewable energy. The council insisted the roles would benefit Anglesey economically. "

you seem to be preoccupied with disability issues and causing controversy op ive just seen the aibu thread re parent and toddler spaces.....

Xenia I agree. And funnily enough i'd far rather volunteer to help as a walks coordinator than a librarian, becuase whilst I believe libraries do offer chances to those who have the least, walks etc are hobby choices. I don;t expect my hobbiess to be covered by the state- goodness knows it's not, just put my name forwards as Child Protection Rep for our club- it seems such an easy cut off to make.

Anglesey is in a mess though. I wouldn't use it as an example- caretaker council put in, leader of which has IIRC already resigned (the joys of Welsh local news LOL; 5 hours from Anglesey but heck )

I am not sure I am bothered by th OP's mentions of disability in this thread: if anything we've been able (we being SN community I guess) to put across our experiences which is valuable. Given there's been no offensive come back I am quite thankful for that; how can I expect people to understand the boy's needs if I never explain them?

I'd much rather see the focus of funding be centtralised on the vulnerable and life chances; far better IMO to help people into employment and work than spend it on fripperies and accesories. So a big yes to libraries and disabled services (PC access in itself is crucial in fidning a job these days) and a thumbs down to the PCSO who shouts at the SN Taxi driver for using a diisabled space without a blue badge despite 2 SNU kids in his car needing a safe drop off zone, and whoever it was who authorised the installation of several fancy blue lights under the motorway bridge last eyar prior to a big event that was in daylight anyway. Can't remember how much Dh said it will have cost (same field) but can remember going

I think it's interesting that people cannot discuss benefit cuts without it being so personal and always having to relate to their Dc/SDC/PIL etc.

I don't think DLA money should go toward holidays. I think it should cover the gap between what is being brought in and what the disabled person needs. I have no qualms with people claiming it, however, I fully support the new medical tests going under way in 2013.

I think medical tests will raise the fraud rate and cause people with non-physical disabilities who should qualify for it to lose it.

It's much easier to feign pain or mobility issues if you've a mind to during one examination than it is to exaggerate something to different specialist who are actually treating someone.

Autism, because it's the hidden disability I have the most experience with, is very hard to work out. I know one girl who has been able to recite the green cross code since she was 3, she's never been able to apply it though, she still randomly runs into traffic if not closely supervised, but if asked how to do it during an assessment, would answer perfectly. My DS would tell anyone who asked him that he dresses himself, because physically he does and you don't want to point out to a teenager that in fact that isn't the case, he has to have somebody with him or - and these are all things he does fairly often, he'd be at school with his pyjamas on under his clothes, no underwear on, no shoes on, shorts on in the winter or his jumper on back to front and inside out. Now ok, some of them aren't major issues, but there's still a difference between what he would describe the situation as from what the reality is.

DWP medical assesors aren't autism specialists and it takes those much much longer to assess autism.

Even thopugh those new medical tests are administered by know-nothings LOTM?

I support medical tests by qualified people in conjunction with reports etc by Paeds so that non visible difficulties can be picked up.

I am an ASD specialist, or I guess you could call me that- a dissertation away from an MA in the subject,, as I say whsilt I tend to get an inlking about whether people may have traits quite quickly I could not in any way understand a person's needs or even say if someone had ior did not have it in the time it takes ATOS to assess.

Yet Apeds / SLT / school services have spent hours with my son; I do not understand why the words of someone heading up the ASD Specialist school would be taken as less than an ATOS person- yet that's how it works.

Does it pay for holidays? Hmm. It frees up money that would have been spent from our other income on special diets, frequent replacement, car etc to buy holidays (caming; we tried a caravan once. Never again! DS1 kept jumping out of the window and running away!). But then it's swings and roundabouts isn't it as to which pot it comes from, and we are a working family so I think the expenditure balance is fine. This months is going on furniture as ds1's behaviour to ds3 means we have to convert the dining room to a bedroom for him, and need to re-equip (was in a bunk before and sahred furniture so totally). Next month is already budgeted for clothes, shoes to replace stained and torn ones, nerw wardrobe for ds1 that he smashed and some towards MOT for second car. OTOH I will pay £70 to C&CC (camping org) for a trip to their annual get together from carer's allowance but it could equally come the other way around- it's just how I divvy it up personally. In winter it goes alrgely to help with fuel as ds3 strips a lot and gets very cold at odd hours. Family Fund certainly cover trips away; I suspect in tyhe long term it's cheaper to give a carer a break like that than face the fallout of exhaustion.

I don't get the argument that we should depersonalise the debate; case studies and RL famillies are exactly what it's about. Many people will never know the details of someone's expenses any other way- I certainly would not tell people at school etc. It's like saying cancer patient's experiences shouldn;t be asked for before the services are designed; poppycock.

Oh ATOS not guaranteed to input into chidlren's assessments as yet: government have not decided, same as with Carer's Allowance.

DS1 however is approaching his teens so adult changes matter to us. I have made the call not to apply for DLA for ds4 if he needs it but would if ds1 lost his.

Both myself and my OH are "disabled" - so yes I guess I do think about issues to do with this more than some other people. Perfectly natural IMO.

tabulahrasa:

Absolutely.

fareasier to feign a bad back than ASD in such an assessment no? Whrn Assessor says 'can you pick up this pencil on the floor?' (genuine Q) it's easy for an adult faking something to say 'Sorry hurts too much'- whereas ds3, in all his severe asd LD oblivion- would simply do it because it's a one step command and doable and ASD doesn't mean he's not helpful.

As both my ASD - diagnosed boys attend a specialist educational placement it would make far more sense to observe their statements, talk to their class teachers but no.

IIRC Birmingham seem to think that the new statement replacement system will observe entitlement to DLA as part of deciding who gets school help: so focring many people who financially were able not to claim DLA into claiming, and meaning that many famillies battle for help because the DLA changes stuffed their kid's assessments up. I suspect this will change rapidly: it's one thing for the don;t-cares to look away as DLA is denied, another thing if it places their child in a school setting with a child unsupported despite their Sn because it was not visible at assessment. So lots more kids with ADHD, Autism, MH issues etc. I help teach (unpaid) in a class of SEN kids once a week, and if those kids were in MS it would affect very many; moreso ds1 being in MS until this stage (yr6, going to ASD Base in September) has markedly affected both his learning and that of his classmates. And put the odd one in A&E. It's taken me 6 years to fight for this placement and I suspect that will get worse.

Of course it is Lesley but LOTM is not a huge fan of the state benefits system IIRC, other than for carers and those with disabilities. My lot obviously fall into that group but having worked for a pretty major children's charity larfely with unemployed famillies etc (be default rather than aim- area I was absed was a large estate) it's my experience that the more you know about people's experiences the more you understand: you may not like or approve but you (me) would struggle to dismiss.

Well I agree with that lesley. Its only natural to think about personal experiences when discussing cuts to disability services.

In fact I think its odd to hold forth about them when you have no experience.

I also think about the families I work with.

I was on IB for about 18 mths after DD died. I was called up for a medical. I failed it. I was asked questions about my physical health. Could I stand up and sit down etc. Reams of them.

I was suffering from PTSD and depression. Reactive depression so I wasnt claiming that I would be ill for ever. I sobbed throughout the interview. The first and last time I have cried for more than a few seconds since she died. I couldnt speak, I was so distressed. I was a wreck.

I was passed fit for work and when I saw the report it looked like it was written about someone else. It bore no resembalance to the interview I had attended. Being as depressed as I was I could not bear to go through and appeal. I had no energy for it.

So they got me off IB. Well done. I obviously didnt need it because otherwise I would still be on it

I was very lucky because I managed to find a very part time (10 hours) low stress job. This just covers the IB. I stuggle everyday, I find it stressful to leave the house and I am on medication. BUT I just cope. If I had been forced into a less suitable job I would not cope. And then who would look after DH and DS2 as well as my other children?

I am glad not to be on benefits anymore but the process was deeply, deeply flawed and the whole thing could have turned out much much worse.

It certainly might make sense to film children with hidden disabilities at their worse (and even at their normal if normal is hard) and make a kind of easy to follow short composite it of it to show to those assessing a child if they would agree to watch it.

The OP would have a fair point if the DLA paid was enough to cover all those lost services.

It isn't.

So therefore the OP IBU.

Xenia we have done that but apparently ATOS would not be allowed to view, or dicuss with Paed Consultant; THAT is my issue with the potential process, at least in part.

We don't have lots of films- mainly of the damage post-meltdown as filming makes him substantially worse and raises level of violence- but I think they should be admissable.

After all, if the children this covered were OK and functioning well the state would hardly provide ASD provision, spend a small fortune on TAs etc. There is acknowledgement of the existence of the issue in the very existence of those provisions, so it should carry across the state sector.

Proper support- educational and financial- maximises kid's chances longer term (and indeed those of the carers) and in turns feeds back into the state in so many positive ways: more working parents, less children raised in poverty with the expensive results of that (siblings as well after all), less risk of amrital breakdown in famillies handling an SN (currently around 80% last stats I read), more people with Sn able to work as adults and not rely on costly state intervention. I don't understand why people think cutting from that system equals savings, because that's just not so: it just racks up higher expenses long term. Better to fund a statement and DLA for say 6 years of school than to have an adult on ESA and all the other benefits they might claim, potentially with famillies also relying on them, after struggling with the initial SN / SEN plus the depression and other MH issues that can accompany disabilities of thsi nature that go unsupported; am thinking eating disorders, nervous breakdowns, self harm etc.

I guess it's inevitable that no party can see finacially beyond the tenure of their parliamentary term though, sadly.

The thing is though that at the moment for children (obviously not quite the same agencies for adults) the parent fills in the form giving detailed explanations of care required, someone else who knows the child gives a statement of how the child's life is affected by their disability, the parent is expected to give evidence of the child's condition (medical reports etc.). Then separately, the child's school will be contacted for a report as will any health care professionals, so in my DSs case that would be - the school doctor, a developmental paediatrician, occupational therapy and speech and language therapy.

Now obviously adults aren't in school - but other than that it's all similar. If the parent/carer/claimant said that they needed help with... and everyone else said, nope they can do that fine, it'll not be awarded, which is why there's such a low level of fraud.

The change from that to a medical assessment seems designed to stop people with a disability other than a physical one claiming benefits and it makes it much easier to defraud if there is a physical problem.

Which just seems ridiculous.

I don't know, Lesley. I understand what you're saying about DLA not being 'for a disability' but for help with everyday stuff, but you can't always break it down like that. It is also paid to those with fluctuating conditions (although with ATOS I have severe doubts and fears as to whether this will continue) so some days they may be able to get along ok by themselves and others be flat out and need help round the clock. It's blurred lines really.

You sound like you're almost saying there are those on DLA who shouldn't be because they can cope, as you do despite being disabled. There are levels of disability though. Sancti's ASD ds couldn't manage on his own. I have what sounds like similar to you, screwed lungs and do PD day and night also, but this isn't enough to keep me well enough to cope, I am in pain most of the time and struggle to breathe as well as constant infections so get DLA. But there are days I walk the dc to school and the park and no one looking at me would know, however even on those days I struggle far more than my friends doing the same thing. DLA in some sense compensates for lack of earnings, (well not entirely seeing as I was a teacher) but is mostly used for transport, heating, things that help with breathing, physio equipment etc etc.

I suppose I'm saying it's not cut and dried, and you can't judge everyone according to set criteria, really. It's one reason why so many are absolutely terrified about the ATOS thing, not because they are afraid of 'being found out' but because they are so scared of losing the only money that keeps them above water, and that is a gateway to so much else that makes life bearable, such as the blue badge scheme.

So all in all, YANBU

It does indeed tabulah