For ex dh to describe cremation to a 7 year old?

[alibo]

Ds, (just 7) is currently trying to come to terms with the loss of his only grandpa. He died in January after a long battle with cancer. All the family are missing him terribly and ds has found it hard especially. He was really brave and attended the funeral/buriel along with his 2 young cousins, and has found some comfort being able to "visit" him at the cemtery and take flowers to him etc. Ex dh has been made aware of how he's doing, and that he's going to take a while yet to come to terms with it, etc.
However, myself and my mum were totally gobsmacked when tonight whilst watching "Firehouse Dog" disney film on tv, ds pipes up that his dad told him this weekend that when HIS dad died(before ds was born), that "A FIRE WAS MADE, THE COFFIN PUT IN IT, AND BURNT UNTIL THERE WAS NOTHING AT ALL LEFT". Even if it was ds who questioned @ where his other grandad was,
Am i being unreasonable and actually livid, feeling that:
a) ex dh, (knowing that at the moment ds has a lot to deal with emotionally, coming to terms with the death of very close family member), found it necessary to go into such detail about cremation, at age 7??
b)ex could not have said something like he was resting somewhere near where he used to live etc(actually a long distance from where we live anyway so ds would not be expecting to go)
c)ex could at least have changed the subject and then had the common courtesy to discuss with me that the question had come up, and should we discuss a subject as sensitive as bodies being burnt in a coffin with a child still in infant school?
Totally unrelated to subject, but this is the kind of person i have to deal with:
Just to give you one (of many) indications of the sensitivity of this person, ds attended the wedding of exdh and his girlfriend 2 days before his grandpas funeral, and ex dh did not even notice ds was crying under a table watching the newlyweds snog and smooch. Ds actually told me this, and said all he could think was that he wished his daddy lived with us as he watched them.
This is also the same person who last year was actually capable of ignoring his son and would not even speak to him on the phone when ds came down with a bad urine infection the day he was supposed to be going on a camping trip with ex dh and his friends. Ds spent half the weekend at the emergency room, and the rest of the weekend in tears, and dh happily enjoyed the trip and could not even call him to see how he was.
Honest opinions would be appreciated, thanks x

[tomhardyismydh]

i can understand why you are pissed off, but as far as him explaining the cremation to your son is not out of order. the camping thing is shitty though.

unfortunatly sometimes this situation comes with the territory of parents not being together and on your part its about picking your battles and knowing when to express your opinion or bite your tongue. i generaly have this problem my self, im livid about something ex has done or said and others think i should let it drop. thats why taking a step back from voicing to ex is some times the best option.

hope your son is feeling better soon, sounds like you are doing agreat job of helping him through this.

[nulgirl]

I know that there is probably a lot of backstory that means that you view things differently but what were you honestly expecting your ex to do when asked- say "I'm sorry I can't answer that question til I phone your mum and check with her"? I think it is important to be honest with children and that they feel that they can ask their parents tricky questions. My dd who is 4 had a friend who died last year and she still asks questions about her. She has not directly asked about the body and the cremation but when she does we will be honest with her.

[Notka]

when my husband's Grandfather has died on December 2010 we have said to the kids girl-10 years old and boy-6 years old ( now 7). They were sad we have explain that it will be better (grandad had a bad cancer) for him, he doesn't feel pain any more, and he is looking from there....
They were sad, they cried a bit but boy didn't go with us for the funeral- - and we didn't take him- he was just scared I think but he understand it.
Is this wrong that we didn't take him?

[turdass]

My sons' grandfather died earlier this year. They weren't very close so DS1 wasn't terribly upset. We took him to the funeral and cremation. I was worrried that cremation might upset DS1 who is somewhat dramatic however I dealt with it in a Christian context (which I know might not suit some people) by saying that grandad is now in heaven and that his body is just like an old suit of clothes he no longer needs. We stressed that the body didn't work properly any more and it wasn't grandad, who was now in heaven. DS was fine with the whole thing and was actually disappointed not to see the actual cremation taking place.

[turdass]

Forgot to add that DS1 is 5.

[wannaBe]

I think you are unreasonable expecting your xh to make something up about his own father. Death is a part of life and children deserve to know the truth. What would you have told him if your father had been cremated?

Notka no you're not in the wrong. It's a personal choice and is often reliant on lots of different factors - my personal opinion is that funerals are no place for small children but that could also depend on how close they were to the deceased and whether they were mature enough to decide for themselves whether they want to go.

[AnyoneforTurps]

Presumably you have explained the process of burial to your DS so what's the problem with explaining cremation? Are you sure you are not projecting your own feelings about cremation onto your son?

TBH you sounds very angry with your ex (no doubt with good reason) and determined to object to whatever he does. Are you really saying that, when your DS asked him about cremation, your ex was supposed to ring and ask for your permission before he replied? Do you ring and ask for his consent before you talk to your DS about his grandfather?

[springbokdoc]

Sorry for your loss - I can imagine it was really hard to not only deal with your loss but breach the topic of death with your ds. However, I do think YABU - if your ds has learnt about burial he should learn about cremation too. You've already laid the groundwork for him to understand it.

I don't think that your dh should lie/change the subject - I think that kids should be able to ask their parents and get an honest answer. I understand that you're annoyed at your exh and that every instance will be coloured by what has happened before, though I do think he handled this topic in a reasonable way.

[valiumredhead]

What would YOu have told your ds if he had asked what cremation was?

[hissymissy]

YABU about the cremation thing. It's no worse than being buried forever in the ground, surely?

It is always best to be truthful with kids. DS knew all about his dead Granny (my mum) by the age of 4. I explained how some people's heart stops, and their body stops working, and that some people like me believe you go to heaven to be with God if you are good. I also explained that her body was burned and the ashes were buried, and he helps me put flowers on her headstone from time to time. No difference between being buried and being cremated really, because your spirit/soul/conciousness is no longer there.

Your ex does sound like a bit of a dick though, YANBU about that bit!

[doormat]

dont know if this has been mentioned but there are some really good books for children that explain the burial and cremation process in a child friendly manner....
cant remember the name off hand but if you google you may come up with something to help your child

hugs xxx

[princessparty]

YABU I would think most 7 yr olds know anout funerals/ cremation /burial
Wa no-one appointed to keep an eye on a him during his dad's wedding.The wedding day was his and his new wifes's special day -they should be focussing on each other not your DS who sounds as though he is a bit jealous of sharing his dad's attention.
Re the camping trip- why couldn't you have got his prescription and taken him along to meet his dad?

[lilyliz]

ok ex is insensitive but whats the problem about the cremation deal,always tell kids the truth,saves explaining again later on.

[Colliecollie]

Yabu, he told him the truth, I agree with lilyliz

[unfitmother]

I can't see how or why he could have not have answered his DS' questions.

[alibo]

Thanks for replies, some very helpful! Think i probably should've said in original post that i had already mentioned to exdh when saying about dad being buried, that we all felt as a family that the children at their age and being hugely close to their grandpa would find cremation and burning his body quite grusome and hard to comprehend. Some may disagree, but that is just personal choice. Plus, when i asked my mum exactly what ds had said, his exact words were that "daddy says they(but not sure who) made a huge fire, threw the coffin in, and it burnt till there was nothing left." "And, no daddy didn't say anything else". Full stop, no more detail, it is THAT that i object to, and yes it would be a miracle for him to even stop to think that he could've gone about discussing it with him in a darn sight better way than that. And as one post suggested, virtually impossible for exdh to work together with me, ever, to discuss difficult issues, and to make sure we're telling ds the same with no contradicting etc.
I have pushed for 6 years now to try and get him to communicate more with regards to ds, it is impossible.
TBH exdh could've said that his dad was at a garden of remembrance where you take flowers, and ds would have fully accepted that. He would not have started asking to go etc as he he knows exdh's family lived hundreds of miles away, and exdh in fact had very liitle to do with his father, and never, ever talks about him. He also has very little contact with any of his family, because guess what HE CANNOT COMMUNICATE WITH THEM!!
Ds has several times happily taken flowers to my grandma's ashes plot in the last few years and i've never had to turnround and say well gran's coffin was thrown into a fire and burnt!! He's been perfectlty accepting of the fact that that is just where she is. I totally agree that you have to explain cremation if i childs family member dies and they are then being cremated, and child may go etc, but this is not the case. I just feel that exdh is not here to see how hard ds is finding things at the moment,(despite my best efforts to keep him filled in on how ds is) and has enough to come to terms with without him having more distressing things piled on. Especially when to be blunt he is crap at explaining things in an age-appropriate manner.
On the subject of me treating ds like a 2 year old, horses4courses, you couldn't be further off the mark, which sholud have been obvious really in view of the fact that ds has been fully involved in the funeral, burial, visiting grave etc; many people thought he was too young to go to funeral but i thought it was best he went!
It is difficult to pinpoint how exdh treats him like a 10/11 yr old, could be here all night,-just in the way, even from 4/5 years of age, goes into such detail, and uses complex words etc, expects him to understand things that is just not age appropraite, ds sat with puzzled look on face, iyswim. Exdh wanted him to have his own mobile phone at 4yrs old!!??
He ignored ds for one and a half years, from ds being 2 till nearly 4, and even when i pushed to re establish contact for ds's benefit, he still consistently let him down over contact arrangements. Ds stays over now, so as well as dealing with gramps, dads remarraige, he is also finding it hard that daddy lives with his other 3 yr old son, and not him. So i would like to thank those of you who have picked up on how frustrating it is trying my best to help ds cop as best i can, with an ex who makes things difficult every step of the way.
Lastly, princessparty mentioned taking ds to camp with prescription; to cut a long story short ds should have gone on trip on the friday night, came home from school drowsy, temp thru the roof. Contacted exdh asap, said to let him know how he is later, and somehow we'd get him down on trip over the weekend, even if we had to meet half way(it was a good 2.5 hr drive to campsite for me). Spent all day in casualty with ds going worse after barely sleeping friday night, kept exdh informed, diagnosed with bad urine infection. Got prescription, eventually temp down by sat night, got text from dh said he was no longer wiiling to meet that night or sunday morning, if I wanted him to go, i would have to drive all the way for 2.5 hrs, turn round and drive all way back. Basically girlfriend had stamped her feet, said she wasn't letting him meet. Didn't phone to speak to ds at any point over weekend.
And just to add insult to injury, since then he has been on holiday 10 times in 9 months, ONE of which, a night in skegness) he arranged in the school holidays, that is how considerate he is with ds.
Thanks again for your help x

[NappyShedSal]

A night in Skegness is not a holiday!!!
And what is the relevance of it being in the school holidays?

[NappyShedSal]

I get the impression that whatever your ex says will be wrong in your eyes. He was perfectly within his rights to explain what happened to his own father, If it was a member of your family then maybe not, but this was about his own father. And explaining cremation to a 7 year old is really not going to harm him - telling lies and half truths about him "resting" somewhere is likely to cause far more damage. FGS- what would a 7 year old understand from the term "resting". To me it conjures up an old person lying under a tree and too weak and old to get up - a far worse picture than the truth.

So, don't worry - your ex won't have traumatised your DS with explaining cremation. But you need to stop criticising everything that your ex does for the sake of your DS. And maybe your ex does treat him as if he is older than he is - but I think it sounds as if you are being rather over-protective and precious and need to treat your son as a normal 7-year old.

[lurkerspeaks]

YABU.

There is a lot of backstory here that we aren't getting I'm sure.

I believe strongly in being honest with children, offering truthful explanations and answering their questions as fully as possible.

At 7 your son is old enough to know about cremation and he is better to hear about it from a loving parent than from another child at school.

There are lots of good suggestions on the Winston Wish website about resources to use to help children deal with bereavement. You might want to have a look.

[alibo]

nappyshedsal, realised it wasn't clear in my original thread; i meant to say "resting" is a term EXDH uses for the dead, not myself, and just know ds wouldn't have questioned it further as he knows it would be too far away to visit where other gramps is etc. Its clear most people think he should be told exact truth, but we all know our own children best, and i still think in this case a "need to know" basis wouldn't have harmed in view of how ds is struggling with his grief at the moment. I do agree honesty is best if possible, but we all have to sometimes tell white lies depending on how a situation is at the time.
It doesn't help that exdh is also crap at keeping in touch by phone and could make more of an effort to chat to ds in the week, but he doesn't, says he's too busy. He has had serious discussions about things with ds before where he has totally confused him by sometimes telling him things so blunt with no explanation, or the other extreme with too much info that he blows his mind! Then, doesn't make himself available to talk, as we all know kids go away and think about things and then bring it up days later. Because exdh also will not communicate with me any deep discussions they may have, which yes i can hear you now, he may want to keep their chats private; but we both know ds is the sort that will mull things over, and is a real worrit, always has been, I am left to try and answer unanswered questions and fill gaps in iyswim? I have even relented on the mobile phone issue, which he said " i will ring him more if he has his own phone"; and guess what its made no difference whatsoever!
And just to clarify it is the way he communicates with ds, or the lack of that gets me, exdh is now on his 3rd solicitor, 2 others will no longer deal with him because of his complete lack of communication !!! And yes after 6 years separation we still have no financial settlement beacuse of this!

And info about holidays, sorry was late when typing; exdh chose to go on 9 holidays in the space of 9 months with his girlfriend and other son (2 yrs old), all in term time so that ds wasn't able to go, and then anounced he coudn't afford to go in the school holidays! Well, obviously not when he'd just been on a 2 week caribean cruise, 2 weeks in turkey, one week in gran canaria, butlins and various long weekend breaks! So, he took ds for a night in skegness over the 6 weeks holidays.

[alibo]

Sorry meant to answer blondeshavemorefun's question;, there was only one person from exdh's side at his wedding, his elderley mother now bad on her legs so was in a wheelchair. Oddly enough he's not in touch with other family, he has ignored them for too long! So ds was really just left to run round with other peoples kids most of the day at the wedding x

[littleducks]

I'm sorry but you and your family may find it 'gruesome' and inapropriate but many otehrs don't. You had your chance to explain these things but didnt want to, you cant complain when your sons father does.

[2rebecca]

If you get cremated the coffin and body do get burned. I'd far rather someone told my kids that than went on about being in heaven as I'm an atheist.
The death of someone you know is sad and final.
You sound overinvolved in your exe's life if 5+ years down the line you are still counting his holidays. I have no idea how many holidays my ex has, he tells me at the time but I don't remember them. Aso the number of holidays a person has doesn't necessarily correlate with anything, I have more money than my dad but my dad goes on more holidays.
I think it's a shame he doesn't take your son on holiday more but you sound a bit controlling about the cremation thing. He doesn't need your permission to discuss cremation any more than you need his, although if one of you is talking about angels and heaven and the other says that's crap that could be confusing at 7, although they study different religions and atheism at a younger age at school these days and if my ex had been religious and my kids had asked me about an afterlife I wouldn't have lied to them and may have waffled about different people believing different things.
What happens in a cremation isn't that subjective though, you just burn the body.

[NameChange1234]

YABU

[magicmummy1]

Sorry for the loss of your father, but I think yabu. The idea of cremation may be gruesome and upsetting for you, but your exH may disagree. I have told my 5 year old about cremation, and I don't think she finds the idea any more disturbing than burial. Why would she? It seems that you're projecting your own feelings about this onto your ds, but I don't think his dad was being unreasonable to tell him the facts about what happened to his other grandad.