To ask whether or not people here believe in homeopathy - at the risk of floggin a dead horse...

[MistyB]

Winter: Homeopaths are not unqualified - they follow 3 or 4 year degree courses including anatomy and physiology.

Alistron1: The principle of Homeopathy has been known since the time of Hippocrates from Greece, the founder of medicine, around 450 BC.

I am tempted to answer the bottles falling on the floor question but feel that you would ridicule the answer in the way that the Spanish Inquisition determined that the theory that "the sun was imobile and at the centre of the universe" was "foolish and absurd".

It's also true that some people like to disregard science because they want to feel SPeshul. And all tha haterzz just don't unnerstand that it's, well, Majik and you have to have Faith. ANd other such crap that means any good con artist can pretty much smell them coming.

All the answers you need: How Does Homeopathy Work?

www.1023.org.uk/leaflet.pdf

maybe you should hand these out UQD

UQD that made me laugh out loud, thank you!

Piggy, that 'brainwashing' is several hundred years of observable, verifiable science. As opposed to magic water and fancy shaking.

If it wasn't for nasty old science you wouldn't be able to participate in this discussion on the ole interweb. The scientific principles that have led to elastic trickery and computers etc are THE SAME ONES that tell us that homeopathy doesn't work beyond the bleedin' placebo.

FFS.

"Why are you so obsessed with defending your ludicrous and incomprehensible position Gooseberry? Are you a professional crap-peddler? Or just someone who has spent a fortune on crap and can't bear the idea that you have been connned through the bag and back?"

er I don't use homeopathy. Can't you read? Seriously?

How can you describe an argument as "ludicrous or incomprehensible" when you haven't read it and don't know what it is? Why do you insist on talking to people when you've no interest in what they say? What is the matter with you?

lol at "people find science scary"

oh aye, terrified, me

that must be why they trust doctors and nurses and the people that fix their computers and build the bridges they drive on and so on and so forth

ffs

"people find science scary"

guffaw

Gooseberry, these two threads have been about homeopathy. It's in the title. I think most people are well grounded in the placebo effect. Many are pointing out that homeopathy does not work BEYOND THE PLACEBO.

Sorry for the caps, but fecking sheesh...what the feck is your point woman?

Fecking sheesh -- why don't you read?

You don't get to control what people post -- who are you, the police?

Anyway didn't you say bye on page one? You must have been desperately surprised that we didn't all accept that you are "right" and just shut up. How dare we?

It's easter (almost), I came back to lead my disciples.

Talking about being well-grounded in the placebo effect -- were you going to explain it, as it's so easy to understand Stata? Would also be interested to know what other terrible injustices and cases of harm you are concerned about besides GPS handing out anti-biotics like Smarties. I'm willing to bet that will be a very short list indeed. Excuse me for making assumptions but I would love to be disabused of them.

Followers is right. Eyes forward and plod in the footsteps of the one in front. Though somebody did object most strenuously to that term.

Gooseberry, I suggest you do your own research since you wish to be science informed. Go to google scholar. Type in 'placebo effect'. I'm sure you'll find it interesting reading as there is much research on it. Although you might find quite a bit of that pesky epidemiology and sciencey stuff.

This discussion isn't about problems with the NHS. There are many problems with more issues than whether or not to support homeopathy, I agree. Not sure why you'd think it'd be a short-list. I just don't think that it's an argument for supporting homeopathy that worse things happen at sea!

No no - I'm not the one claiming it's easy to understand. Why would I want to research something I know isn't true? But it would be nice if you could show us exactly why you think it's so easy to understand. After all, it's easy! How long can it take?

Don't forget, all those things that go wrong with conventional medication go wrong in the name of "science". So perhaps the best thing it could do would be to instil a little humility in those who understand that.

"Why would I want to research something I know isn't true?" Brilliant statement! I think that about sums your thinking up, right Gooseberry??

I didn't say it was easy. It's complex. That's science for you.

Not at all is that supposed to be an insult?

"You seem to think the placebo effect is mystical in some way. It's not."

I don't think it's mystical -- something else you made up. However you clearly think it's well understood.

It's not.

Are you two still at it? This has been done to death. I'm off to sainos in a minute and hope you ou have buried the hatchet by the time I get home. The sickly toddler of yesteryear is braying for huge quantities of grub and we shall never know what cured him in the end. Perhaps it was love!!! New thread?

I just can't let some of this poor thinking lie unchallenged!

Stata far from being mysticawl I think it's an example of something which plainly must be grounded in the science of physiology we just don't understand it yet.

Whereas you seem to think we know everything. Already. Nothing to learn. Gavel.

Quite the opposite.

I'm not the one who said 'Why would I want to research something I know isn't true?'

My own philosophy is that I cannot know whether it is true until I have researched it. I guess that's a significant difference between us and explains why we reach different conclusions.

I suggest you go and read about what we know about the mechanisms of the placebo effect. I never said it was completely understood but some of the mechanisms have been identified and are understood. If google scholar is a bit difficult for you, wikipedia have a nice summary of the various mechanisms through which the placebo effect can work.

One thing that is interesting is that placebos can work (although not as well) without deception. So no need even for the deception and smokescreen of homeopathy to get some placebo benefit. Win win.

Have a look here, it's open access so you can read the whole article.
www.plosone.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0015591

But I have read up on placebo in the normal everyday way, all of it through conventional resources. Perhaps I should have said, why would I want to research it again. They've all said it's little understood -- that's why I went to conventional resources.

I think you're trying to imply that you are tremendously scientific and sensible whereas I am prejudiced and don't understand?

Quite wrong. I understand that there's no physical reason or chemical reason why homeopathy could work as it claims. But I'm not prejudiced. I can see value in it despite that. And I'm not of limited vision. Every great scientist was intrigued, was curious, was interested in what could not be currently understood.

You are not. I think that's the difference between a number cruncher and a scientist.

Not the IBS study again? It's popped up so many times on this thread. That is not an example of placebo without deception.

Did you read that thread jaggy?

You know what jaggy, you seem to have no actual argument or point to make so you've resorted to abuse too.

the study i linked to a story on twice was not this IBS study either, clearly you didn't bother your arse to read it.