...to think the [now free] morning-after pill for young girls is a dreadful indictment of our permissive society?

[ftm42]

Just been listening to news on breakfast TV. Quotes as follows [as close as poss]

"...morning after pill prescribed now for free in Wales to under 16s..."

"...highest level of teenage pregnancies in Europe..."

I wonder if there's a link between those 2 quotes?

DUH!!!

Am I alone in thinking that the more you give kids a 'get-out of jail card', the more they'll have sex when they aren't ready? Why can't we teach our kids to

JUST SAY NO!

Accidents happen, they always have, but for goodness sake, in making it easier to get an abortion [that's what it is, let's not beat around the bush here] doesn't it make it easier to get pregnant in the first place as you can always get rid of it. Have we sunk so low to think we can throw it all away and then fix it later by "getting rid".

Absolute bollocks.

Giving out pills that prevent pregnancies does not cause more pregnancies.

Yes, deny them effective contraception and make them have unwanted babies - that'll teach them. Here, have a my first ever.

Fortuntately it is not for you to make important decisions about the lives of young women.

Have another

No of course I'm not saying that, what a ridiculous question nobody would say that or least I hope not. The fact is men/boys used to fear getting a girl pregnant because then their would be evidence and consquences now they know they can abuse much more easily. I don't really think child abusers tend to use condoms or ci to be honest.

OP said it. thereby showing what an ignorant nobber he/she/it actually is.

"I have already acknowledged that accidents happen and we should support them when they do."

The support is there... in the form of the MAP, amongst other things.

I very much hope that you're not suggesting that your idea of "support" should solely be seeing a teenaged girl through pregnancy and giving childbirth?

What do you suggest should happen when an under-age girl becomes pregnant?

Sorry, there's a stray "giving" in my post.

Oh feck off.

Preaching abstinence DOES NOT WORK.

Teaching people how to avoid pregnancy and about relationships works - which is why Holland has one of the lowest teen preg rates in the world.

And the MAP is not an abortion.

FFSHidesTheThreadForTheSakeOfHerBloodPressureTiggazz

FFS, can't we have a decent April Fool troll?!

The MAP works precisely because it is administered pre-conception. It takes up to 3 days for the sperm to meet the egg and potentially inseminate it, which is why the MAP is said to be efficient up to 72 hours after unprotected sex. So to call it a form of abortion is not only ridiculous but factually wrong.

If the OP wants get on their high horse about sexual matters, they reeeeeeally ought to actually know the basic facts about sex and conception Anyone with the most rudimentary understanding of human biology should know that the MAP is actually incapable of being an abortion.

It would be lovely if nobody had any contraceptive accidents or if people too young to be having sex weren't having sex but that's an ideal world and we don't live in one. It is stupid to want to legislate for an ideal world based on the opinions and bias of some people and, in fact, it is immoral and irresponsible. We have to legislate based on reality and what is needed in society. If some people - like the OP - don't like that or are incapable of understanding common sense then it's tough luck on them.

Oh, it's got another thread about teen mums on benefits as well.

[yawn]

It's Friday, OP, start a bumsex thread.

ftm42 Fri 01-Apr-11 09:05:53
"cory - sorry, I don't know the answer to that one!"

I do, having grown up in Sweden and having plenty of Swedish nephews and nieces of varying ages.

It is very simple: Swedish teens generally tend to have a positive attitude towards sex as something enjoyable and fun and guilt free - but they are very careful not to get pregnant as they are having a good time and excited about the future and don't want their style cramped by a baby.

IF British teens had as much fun, they wouldn't see being stuck in a tiny council flat on benefits with a squalling baby as any kind of viable alternative.

The only Swedish teen pregnancy I ever heard of in my own young days was that of the daughter of the Baptist pastor during an exhange trip to the US, presumably a combination of her background and being in a strange country where precautions were more difficult to organise. The rest of my friends took good care.

beesimo, your own post proves that the fear of getting the girl pregnant did not act as a deterrent on the abusing uncle: that is proved by the very fact that he did get her pregnant.

Oh fuck off you ignoramus.

So you don't want teenagers to have access to emergency contraception, but you also begrudge them hostel accommodation if they become pregnant?

YABU and a total loon.

Sex being a special thing between 2 married people was the expected norm for centuries and has only changed in the last 30-40 years.

It didnt stop my Grandma getting married in 1939 because she was 4 months pregnant. Or "maternity homes" for unmarried mothers existing around the country, or the Laundries in Ireland, or girls "going away to stay with an aunt in the country" for 6 months.

If you think that this is a modern problem you are sadly mistaken, we just no longer ostracise the women/girls involved and force them to give their babies up into secret adoptions. If you feel that going back to "old values" would be better then I suggest you do some research into the effect it had on the girls involved and think about what it would really mean.

My Grandparents were very much in love and were devoted through over 60 years of marriage. But she didnt know that when she got pregnant at 17, the fear she must have felt must have been awful. What if my Grandad hadnt married her? Her whole life would have been ruined for what she thought at the time was a special thing, while my Grandad could have walked away and got married and had a family with no one thinking any worse of him. Are you really suggesting that we go back to that? Because as much as you preach abstinence, human nature means that that is exactly what would happen.

And the MAP is not an abortion, I suggest you also do some research into that too and how it actually works.

The morning after pill is not an abortion.

Underage sex is nothing new and in many countries the age of consent is lower than 16 anyway. People have sexual urges - you can't teach people to rationalise them away

Here are some links on why teenage pregnancies are lower in the Netherlands. It's not just that they have free access to contraception - it's because they have more traditional family structures and also there is a stigma attached to being a teenage mother.

www.famyouth.org.uk/press.php?pagename=DDUPR

This Guardian article talks about an "empowerment and respect" agenda ie. make girls feel comfortable when saying No.
www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/feb/27/teen-pregnancy-netherlands-sex

It's about the whole of society...not just contraception.

Erm, the MAP has been free in the UK forever if you get it on prescription...

That is the biggest load of bollocks I have ever heard.

The MAP has been available free in the UK for a donkey's age (from a trained pharmacist) in some (if not all) counties, and from the GP under the age of 16.

Whilst there might be a child protection issue here (which you fail to have mentioned) with u16's being able to get it free -from a pharmacy I presume- it is an all roung good idea.

I would also venture to suggest that free Levonelle is only given to the girls themselves. The "abusers" would have to pay £26 for it, if the pharmacist would sell it to them anyway.

The MAP is a valuable resource for a lot of young women, and all the girls I have sent to the chemist for it have had some sort of contraception accident/failure.

I work with young girls in sexual health. Don't make comments like that and judge them until you actually know something about them.

I'm not even wasting a biscuit.

Exactly, cory! Here, it's all 'I tell my children that they should be in a stable, loving relationship to have sex' or about how they can't have sex or mention sex or talk about sex with parents unless they're in this stable, loving relationship.

No wonder so many Brits have so many hang-ups about sex!

FGS. It's a bodily function that is very enjoyable.

I spent formative teen years in France, where the attitude towards sex sounds a lot like Sweden. It's fun. Sure, it can be part of a 'loving relationship', but it can also be an activity to enjoy just to enjoy.

And that it's rather silly to feel guilty or shameful if you're a person who just enjoys it and don't need a 'stable, loving, established relationship' to get off sexually.

Some do, some don't. Big deal.

Our shame-based society has a lot to answer for.

i never do this, but

also,

As i said on the other thread; What are you going to do next campaign to reopen the Magdelene Launderies?

I have teenage DD and argee that to many girls don't have the self esteem to make the right decisions, but denying contraception and advocating 'it's easy, just say no' is not the answer.

Are your next threads going to be on parents who haven't taught their sons to use contraceptives, or are you just attacking young girls for now?

Like it, Birds. The girls always get it in the neck. So much for the Sisterhood, eh?

Interesting about the Dutch family structure. I wouldn't necessarily say Sweden has a more formally traditional family structure than the UK- cohabiting is very common and divorce is not rare. What you do notice though is that fathers tend to stay closely involved with their children even post split-up; shared custody is the norm. It is a very child-oriented society- perhaps it has the advantage that noone can grow up unaware of what hard work childcare is. Coupled with the fact that Swedish teens usually seem to be quite positive about the future, have a lot of freedom to have fun and suffer less from a feeling of class determination, it makes early baby care seem a less attractive alternative. And if your parents don't think pre-marital sex is shocking, there is no mileage in trying to shock them by having sex.