To ask whether or not people here believe in homeopathy?

[DaisyLovesMetronidazole]

I don't at all.

However, I'm not out for a bunfight!

Just curious, as was surprised by the response of a certain group to this question today.

And that's why many studies look at whether using a different drug or a lower dose, or a different combination might give the same wanted effect but reduced side effects, and why it's so important to have rigorous trials which compare new therapies to the best available current treatment and not placebo.

Research into these harms is going on all the time. It's very concerning that a treatment can harm as well as heal, or harm and not heal, or cost a fortune and do nothing. Really important that research is carried out to make sure treatments work.

I'm not sure what this has to do with homeopathy though.

I suppose it would be helpful to know who goes to a homeopath for treatment and why they go (in terms of what health problem they have as well as why a homeopath rather than a doctor). As far as I am aware, many (not all) people go to a 'non-mainstream' practitioner because they have been unable to get a satisfactory treatment through a doctor. Presumably if the placebo effect is the only reason homeopathy works, wouldn't it have the same effect on those people when they take regular medicines?

himalaya I am lucky I don't have those things .

In-laws do :( they have been worse off since starting conventional medicine .

I am not advocating not taking drugs for life threatening situations ,I am in the open mined camp actually .

People need to look at why they have type2 diabetes (not1) and see how they can fix it minus drugs .

The same for high blood pressure ...I have lost count of the amount of people I know that are quite happy to subject themselves to forever drugs instead of trying to get well and heal .

This is now off-topic ~sorry ...I wanted to explain my feelings behind my other post .

Do you all trust the Government then ?

Do you believe because they say something is safe to continue with ,it is ?

No doley. I ask questions and I check things out for myself and ask more questions.

Herbwoman, yes, there's presumably an aspect of placebo involved in taking/doing anything that you think will benefit your health. Hence why in placebo controlled trials a treatment can be shown to work only as well as a placebo - ie the effect was only caused by a placebo response.

But if someone had tried conventional medicine and then turned to homeopathy it could be that the extra counselling brought them some relief, or that they were likely to have experienced some relief at that time anyway (most people have "good" days or periods). Who knows? All we know is that when you conduct clinical trials on homeopathic remedies they are not shown to have any effect above the placebo response.

"Rescue Remedy is 27% Brandy according to their website."

Awesome. I shall knock a homemade batch together this evening. Should i dilute it with a couple of ice cubes?

I don't think that DD can muster up the requisite amount of belief to make it worthwhile giving her any, so I shall do some extensive testing on myself instead.

I'll let you all know how relaxed I am feeling afterwards.

For heaven's sake, the attacks on conventional medicine are ridiculous. There are millions of people alive right now who would othewise be dead were it not for modern medicine. I'm one of them and I'm bloody grateful for it. Millions of lives have been saved with anti-biotics alone. How many lives has homeopathy saved?

And the suggestion that that people who think it's pure hokum are not open-minded ignores the reason why they've reached that conclusion - research. I used to be quite ambivelant about it until I read a lot about it and then concluded it was complete shite.

Onagar I'm sorry I can't even read your post that came just after mine. It's written in such a patronising and insulting way. You are not talking to stupid people, they are people who think differently.

So anyone dumb enough to entrust their lives to homeopathy deserves what they get IMO*.

*I contain this attitude to those in the developed world who have the opportunity to know better but choose idiocy instead.

Actually this and the posts by Himalaya following are so unpleasant they are not worth responding to.

torridon I am not attacking modern medicine .

I think homeopathy is to be valued also ,that is all .

I think this thread (for whatever reason) for the most part , decided to write it off .

Even with extensive research ,nothing in life is ever that clear cut .

I tend to live very cleanly ...I guess that is why 'alternatives' appeal to me .

No, I dont believe in Quackery homeopathy one little bit - just a money making scam.

My sister is studying to be a homeopath amother ,there is no way I will accept that she is out to perform a "money making scam " when she qualifies .
There are scammers in all works of life ...some on the NHS ...some drug companies ~you can not tar everyone with the same brush .

Homeopathy is not to be valued one little bit. It's a con trick. It's giving water and sugar pills instead of medicine. What value is there in that?

Living a healthy life is one thing, doley, but believing in nonsense treatments that have been proved to be nonsense is simply disconnecting your brain and being stupid.

Not going to read whole thread - even on April 1st - but loved UQDs link. Tells you everything you need to know.

I seriously can't believe people are still debating this in 2011. It's like coming on here and asking for equal time for the Stork Theory of Birth, or the Flat Earth Society.

Stork Theory of Birth

There's a thing I also see a lot of in the religion threads where 'science' is spoken of as though it were just a club with its own beliefs on the same level as 'faith

Now it isn't of course. It's simply a method of evaluating information. Of looking at reality

Sorry to post & run ongar but I just caught the last few posts before I go back out

& your post, the last line especially caught my attention

& where as you use it with your "Fred & the Room with/without chair analogy to argue AGAINST

This has been pretty much my exact point all along in arguing FOR -

what if the exact science that lies behind Homeopathy is so subtle, that a suitable method of evaluating that information hasn't yet evolved ?? -

so in effect the reality you are looking at is out of focus & you are not therefore seeing it clearly, does that mean, using your own analogy the Chair cannot exist??

nocake I truly believe one needs to study homeopathy before deciding it is a con ...really study it :)

I am not 100% that all homeopathic treatments work ,all of the time,~ for everyone ...but nor do conventional medicines .

For me ,personally ...I will always try the natural before reaching for the paracetamol .
however as I take care of myself ,I can't remember the last time I was in need of one !

doley Living 'very cleanly' is fine, and probably best practice, as long as there's nothing seriously wrong with you. What happens if your body decides it wants to kill you? As I posted up-thread there are homeopaths in Africa peddling their sugar pills to AIDS victims promising it will cure them. I find that utterly repellant.

UnquietDad - unfortunately the NHS still funds homeopathy, despite a recommendation from the science and technology committee, so people without a scientific background believe it works. Of course they do or the NHS wouldn't spend money on it..... see the problem? I did write to the health secretary recently asking why they're wasting money on it and got a pointless bland reply about choice. Of course he failed to mention that some people can't choose certain cancer treatments because the NHS refuse to fund them. If they didn't fund homeopathy they would have an extra £6million to spend on real treatments.

And torridon I totally agree with you there ~that is horrendous .

But , that is not all homeopaths is it ?
not all of them would advocate that .

Conventional doctors have been struck off ,it does not stop me visiting another of thattype of doctor to get A -B - or C drug for my poorly child :)

doley - I've looked very hard at reports of scientific studies of homeopathy and read summaries produce by the Cochrane Collaboration. I've also read extensively about the mechanism by which it is supposed to work. Being a scientist I have taken the evidence, listened to educated people and made my judgement. None of them have said that homeopathy works. Every single one of them has said that it's complete nonsense and no one has been able to provide an plausible explanation of how it is supposed to work. Therefore I conside that I have studied it in some detail and am completely qualified to say that it's nonsense.

I am happy to provide links to documents and papers showing that it's nonsense but I suspect you've already disconnected your brain and made up your mind.

Attacks on conventional medicine are ridiculous?

In what sense is it ridiculous to point out that conventional medicine has its flaws, that there is just as much financial interest invested in it, that conventional research has its flaws, that peer review is not the mothership and that people do die and are harmed by it?

This is an issue of balance. Getting all superior about homeopathy is worthless, a waste of time, if you ignore all the above because millions have benefited.

One vaccine was rolled out with a promise to examine whether Guillain Barre could be triggered. Subequent cases of GB dismissed as coincidence.

Some of you simply do not apply the same rigorous examination to conventional medicine. You just don't. Homeopathy is easy for you, or you think it is. The complex placebo effect of homeopathy is valuable and difficult to understand. But that part is a bit sticky so it's easier to call people idiots.

You can't imagine you are engaged in a serious conversation or makign a serious point when you generalise about an entire tranche of people being idiots. It's very poor.

Wonderful post gooseberry put much better than me :)

Now,nocke

What you have read are papers with a mostly scientific slant ,understandably as you are obviously very clever and with leanings that way :)

It is still not convincing me otherwise though ...maybe its because my brain is disconnected ...maybe you were right

sorry nocakeI should have typed .

This is a link to the summary of the findings by the House of Commons Science and Technology Committee's investigation of homeopathy, which includes links to their full report Link. It's not particularly sciencey.

I'll find a few more links for you.