to give up work, warning, tax credits involved!

[monkeyfacegrace]

Ok all, Im getting myself all muddled so I cant think straight! Please help!

At the moment, I work 16 hours per week. My kids, 4 & 2 go to nursery while Im at work, and the government pay 80% (soon to be 70%) of my childcare.

I earn £400 wages, and get £660 every 4 weeks TC. My childcare costs are £450 per month on average for both kids (vary due to month lenghts, my 4 yr old grant etc). So I get £1060, minus £450 nursery, and the nursery and work are in the next town, so I spend £100 p.month on diesel to get there and back. Leaves me with £500ish(?!)

If I give up work, and pull kids out of nursery (except eldest who will do her 15 hours free), I worked out via TC calculator, I will get £450 per 4 weeks, then I will work a little 4 hour shift every week to earn an extra £100 p.month.

Now on one hand I feel like a scrote and a 'benefit grabber', but as my DH points out, Im actually saving the government money as they pay for so much childcare so I can work. My youngest will miss out on 1 1/2 days nursery that he gets now, but at the moment I feel like I never get quality time with him

What do you wise lot think?

[LoveMyGirls]

Just thought at least you have your own house, car and your fil is giving you 15k........you're already way ahead of me so don't be feeling bad

[peppapighastakenovermylife]

Her DH is working - but 18k a year so presumably they would get more back in tax credits than he was paying in.

I am a big supporter of tax credits but it seems very odd that someone can just give up work and get money because they have children.

I could give up work and then get given a few hundred pounds a month - why?!

If everyone who didnt like their jobs / wasnt earning much did this then there wouldnt be anyone to actually pay the tax credits.

I understand why you want to OP but I think even if you do decide to do this short term, if it were me I would be working out how to get myself out of that situation asap.

[Itrymybest]

My dh earns 18k and I have also worked out that if I earned a similar amount to the op it would not be worth it and I would lose to much so I wont iyswim.

[hormonalmum]

I nearly posted something similar a few days ago. Op - I work 16hours and am debating whether to give up work too.
My decision does not come down to tc, (although I have had a look at the difference it makes - not much) but lots of other little reasons. Eg,3 children all at different places,school holidays childcare issues, relying on favours for pickups and dropoffs.
My current job isnt a career move, its a cushy office admin role.
With 2 children it was a nice break with 3 and the ages they are, it's proving more testing.

Good luck op in your decision.

[mamatomany]

I thought that too, we can't even transport our mortgage for the same amount at the moment without leaving a right arm each as security.

[laInfanta]

Clearly a complete load of shit, so much doesn't add up

[SocietyClowns]

Oh nonsense, if you have any doubts whether it's worth working, stay home with your little ones! They grow up far too fast and you will regret not having that extra year or two with them. A two year old will not appreciate you being a good example as a working mother !
I am coming to this from the other side... I was made redundant just over a year and a half ago and could not get another job because I was pregnant with dc2 (and yes, they take a bump into account in making a decision on who to employ... odd that). With hindsight, it's the best thing that has happened to me!! Yes, I am now finding it hard to find a job and get back into work. But do I regret the chance to be at home? Not a bit! Do what feels right and you won't look back...

[EdwardorEricCantDecide]

If you are getting a mortgage for a 2nd property you need at least 15% deposit, other than that as it is a buy to let lenders will look at the rental income rather than owners income.
Just for those doubting OP
My SIL owns 3 properties and she has never earned more than 20k
She was just lucky enough to have deposits.

[Whatever17]

I think that your kids are so little for such a short period of time that you should enjoy this time with them. The law re benefits et al is changing so rapidly now.

Just have a nice time now and then you will spend the next 30 years putting "tax payers' money" back into the pot. It is yours and your kids money to have while they are really small.

[Drizzela]

I've just come back to this thread and I have to say there are a number of things that I think about.

Firstly the need to spend all this quality time with the children. This to me is a new phenomenon. The cries of 'when will I have time to swim/soft play/ park etc etc' Is all rather odd. I'm pretty sure this is a 90s-now thing. Go at the weekend, go after school/work... why the need for 24 hour 'quality time'? My DD went out in to the garden at 6.15 last night after I fetched her from the child minder where she'd been playing with her little mates since 3pm. I sat with her and we made daisy chains, I then read a book while she read her book to some dolls. Then we had a bath together, a story, and in to bed for 7.30pm... she was happy as larry! Not at all scared by the fact i hadn't spent 7 hours in soft play/ parks etc etc with her.

So when did this obsession with being in our children's pockets start? It seems to me it was around the time when it became easier to give up work and be supported by the government to be at home with our kids.

And when people say 'the governent pay' ... what's that about? The goverment don't generate cash... they take it from working people and redistribute it... they don't pay - working people do. And until I see some kind of evidence that children are better off with a parent at home with them all the time, I won't be happy to fund people to do this.

[iwantadogbutarabbitwoulddo]

Well Drizzela,

We are supposed to live in a compassionate society, aren't we? I recommend you just get on with your life and stop being bitter about where your money goes.

The OP has already pointed out that the tax payer is already giving her as much money as she'd get if she dropped out of work for a while. What's your problem? THERE ARE NO GOOD JOBS ATM, this is not the OPS's fault, if you hadn't noticed.
The OPs job is perhaps better suited to someone how doesn't have childcare to pay for? You expect everyone to labour at minimum wage and see all THEIR money go on expenses? Really? Cos that's a more direct way of seeing your money wasted money compared to you complaining about where your taxes go. Unless you can find the OP a decent job with a living wage please go away.

[MollieO]

My Ds is currently moaning about the amount of quality time he spends with me! He much preferred it when I was working. Although his teachers say how relaxed I look now Ds was happy going to school for 7.30am and being collected at 6.30pm.

[Birdsgottafly]

Drizzela- waht should we as a socirty be investing then, if not families? The evidence is there you must be choosing not to see it. Full time working women with long communting hours is a new phenomenon not the other way round. We are more than wage slaves.

[Drizzela]

I think mollieO hits the nail on the head. The kids don't need us - we need them! Your son didnt suffer as a consequence of you working, but now that you dont you are more relaxed. That's nice and of course everyone wants to be more relaxed. But often it's passed off as something that benefits the childrena nd there for the government should pay and this is IMO what is wrong.

iwantadogbutarabbitwoulddo Compassion for the sick/ elderly/ disabled/ disadvantaged/ people who work all they can but can't afford child care because their wage isn't a living wage - yes. Compassion for someone who opts out of working because theyre "not really career minded" and would rather spend the day ta the park - no.

I am getting on with my life ta, I just have an opinion on what my cash gets spent on. Surely i have the right to that? I'd rather pay for a good MP who is making positive changes to my city to be able to stay over night in London so they can be fresh for the next day's work, than pay for someone to spend the day in a soft play centre! Obviously I'm not happy with the crooked expenses claims but that's fairly obvious and not what this thread is about.

[Drizzela]

birdsgottafly - families that NEED help and who are doing all they can to support themselves but can't.

Pre 1950's many many women worked.. it's not new at all.

[mamatomany]

So maybe staying at home is not for the kids benefit, maybe it's for the mums, some people do not thrive in stressful environments and there has to be a place for those people, since all the factories have closed down where are they going to work, since TC made 4 children attractive to those least able to support them in any sense of the word what are we going to do with them all ?

I bet there's a big war in 15-20's time with the intention of wiping out thousands of the children produced in the last 10 years.

[Drizzela]

that's a bit chilling mamatomany...! Possibly true though. I did have that thought when filling in the census that with all that up to date information they could target who they please.... spooooky!

[NinkyNonker]

To be honest op, you asked for advice and were given it. It wasn't what you wanted so you tried to counter their points with some fortune telling of your own, that don't add up. This was pointed out, quite firmly in places. You got emotional about it. What do you want people to say? Take the advice of those admittedly older and more experienced!

-Don't rely on tax credits
-Don't become voluntarily unemployed
-Think about how tight things will be on £18k, now try to imagine how tight things would be on the pension equivalent of £18k. I refuse to believe a job paying that little will have an amazing pension.
-Better to have your own pension surely?
-Unless your parents are a combination of fortune tellers and financial experts I wouldn't take their word as gospel. Besides, how grossly immature to say that you won't take responsibility for your own finances because when your parents pop it you'll get some cash. anyway, ever heard of care home fees and inheritance tax?

[mollymole]

what i do not understand about the 'quality time' issue is what do you do on the 3 days you are now working out of the home

[Drizzela]

And isn't 'quality time' about the 'quality' ... what's quantity got to do with it?? Surely you're not proposing that if you didnt work you'd fill every moment with 'quality' time...?

[violethill]

You sum it up beautifully NinkyNonky. There are numerous things that don't add up - not least the 'amazing pension' that her DH gets, on a 18k job!
Oh hang on, I expect the inlaws are paying into his pension for him

[peppapighastakenovermylife]

Ignoring the personal situation here and what is morally right or wrong, entitlements, needs of children etc.

Isn't it a bizarre situation that someone can work or not and end up the same financially?

If we all did that....

[Birdsgottafly]

pphtoml- if all parents relied on tax credits and not the sort of employment the op struggles with, then the job would be freed up for someone unemployed. So saving money. If parents are less stressed, value their family and children are happier then we save on the; NHS, education services, prison system, mental health services as well as others. Swings and roundabouts. I am happy for my taxes to support families i could easily write a list where we could save more money than the benefit system costs. Most people would be amazed at what public money is spent on and how much. We should worry about what is morally right.

[doley]

Totally agree birdsgottafly :)