to want to give birth my way?

[changedforamin]

NAME CHANGED TO AVOID HER WRATH FURTHER!

I have a friend who is now a 'Doula'. No training and all earth mother. She seems to think having five kids of her own made her an expert!

She recently told her neighbour, the night before she was to be induced, not to go through with it. She said she was giving her child the best chance by speaking up as a baby should arrive when it does and her body would know when that time was. The lady was 40+6 and had severe swelling.

I am due to be induced at 37weeks with DC and she has informed me this is a wrong decision to take. I am taking it after several meetings with my consultant and to help prevent previous complications. I still hope to have a natural delivery.

AIBU to think it is none of her business and if I wanted her oppinion I would have asked?

Just read thread and see that you are not a first time mother. In which case ignore her with confidence. Some people have wonderful experiences with doulas and she is not helping.

I've had four sections, I once posted on a board called "section support" - ha, it ws full of VBAC enthusiasts who proclaimed all sections to be the work of the devil. Because I personally refused to feel depressed about my sections, no, scrap that; because I didn't have PSTD about it and wouldn't join ICAN to spend the rest of my life declaring all doctors evil bastards who only performed my sections so they could get off for a game of golf earlier I was subjected to accusations of being a man (yes, really) not a real woman, a failure etc...one woman even refused to celebrate her section baby's birthday because in her opinion there was no birth.

I tend to see women like the one you described as vaginal birth militant tree huggers who think the only way to give birth is in the forrest surrounded by wildlife to the soothing sounds of whale music. Tell her to shove off!

PS Do I win anything for the longest ever sentence?

Lindiriel - how can you accuse Pip of being libelous? That has to be proven in court - you are alleging she has been libelous but that's not the same thing. She has the right to her views.

Lindirel, how do you know who she is and which course she's talking about?

Rates of maternal and neonatal deaths are much lower here than in developing countries. this is because here we have proper medical care, where there they have to rely on older women (i.e. doulas) as there are no doctors or midwifes. What every woman needs is emotional support and support for her choices, and a medical team in the back ground to avert disasters. A woman I know had tremendous support from a doula who supported her through a horrible labour and eventual emcs, largely because her husband was not around for her.

"I've encountered these 'militant tree huggers'"

For every mum who's badgered about having a vaginal birth with twins there are dozens who're made to feel they have no choice about having a c/s or induction at term, ctg, elective epidural, elective forceps for second twin etc - even when both twins are head down and things are otherwise fine.

Honestly I don't think that 'too many mothers being pushed into natural births' is a problem in this country.

All evidence would suggest the opposite is true.

"it ws full of VBAC enthusiasts who proclaimed all sections to be the work of the devil"

By which I assume you mean they were people who've had or want VBACS who raise concerns about possible complications associated with repeat c/s.

And this counts as seeing c/sections as 'the work of the devil'.

Sheesh. No wonder the debate has become so stupidly polarised - with phrases like 'tree huggers' and 'work of the devil' being used casually to sum up people's beliefs and attitudes.

Quite simply, if I had listened to someone tell me that, my baby would be dead. End of.
Do what is best for you OP.

Spudulika I don't disagree that the section rate is too high but my pov is about those that do advocate natural birth even when it's not a possibility and try to make section mum's feel failures - there are a lot of them about. Basically they feel failures so try to validate their feelings by trying to make us all feel that way. The 'doula' - sorry but wtf? it's a made-up job description imo (sue me) in this case sounds very much like one of them. Their opinions are an extreme and anybody with extreme opinions either way isn't suited to the kind of job where misinformed opinions could actually cost lives.

I had 2 inductions and they didn't go smoothly - I often wondered if my birth experiences would have been different if I had went into labour naturally. I would say to try and avoid it if you can - going by my experiences.

Uhmmm Spudulika? those weren't MY opinions, they were the opinions of the people I spoke about.

A woman with six children who point blank refused to acknowledge ONE daughter's birthday because she was born by section and therefore there was 'no birth'. Yep, militants, I was the one who dealt with them, I said none of it lightly.

Bloody hell Bottleofbeer... I'm sure that woman's daughter will feel so close to her mother when she's old enough to understand exactly why her siblings have birthdays but not her...

fastedwina I was induced with my 1st (40+6) and ended up with an ECS after about 17 hours of labour/pushing.
Had a natural VBAC with DC2 (40+10). I went from 1 cm dilated to giving birth in 4 hours.
Currently pregnant with DC3 and I'm definitely going for another VBAC. Saying that 2nd birth felt so traumatic (happened so quickly I had no idea what was happening to my body) that I have moments when booking an elective Csection sounds like bliss...

You all sound a bit militant to me actually !

I am a Doula, I do not give advice, I help women make informed decisions, I support them in THEIR decisions. I don't care what they decide, it's not my birth. I care that a woman has choices and chooses what she wants and has control.
I am fed up with people giving Doulas a bad name on hear say, the person started this thread seems to have an underlying problem in her life and chooses to slag Doulas off at any opportunity.

Just ignore her. I don't know why anyone needs a Doula-unless they are already a very good friend..

I am stating what I am about Pippala because I have already crossed swords with her about the lies she posts about doulas on MN.

She's already had one of her threads deleted because she made libellous comments yet she seems to have learnt nothing.

As a doula I enable, I don't give advice, I never tell anyone what to do and I would never under any circumstances tell anyone to ignore medical advice.

I find her lies deeply offensive.

I know for a fact she is conducting a hate campaign and I know precisely at who it is aimed.

She is a sad and malicious person.

Please ignore her and if you require information about doulas go to a reputable website such as Doula UK. doula.org.uk/

There are several doula bodies in the UK - members of Doula UK, the largest not-for-profit organisation of doulas in the UK, abide by a code of conduct and there is a complaints process for anyone who is unhappy with the service offered.

Doulas do not offer "advice" - they are there to provide information and enable women/couples to make their own decisions about their birth/postnatal care. They offer emotional and practical support, but are aware of their boundaries where the medical profession is concerned for example.

For anyone interested please visit www.doula.org.uk for further information or contact [email protected] with any direct comments.

She sounds dangerous.

anonacfr - similar to me then. Induced with first and EMCS. Induced with 2nd and went for VBAC. He was in same awkward position as number 1 (back to back is it) and was born with forceps and venteuse. Just always wonder if things would have went smoother if I had waited for the natural turn of events. Still very grateful to have to beautiful healthy children though.

I have reported you to MN for your libellous post. What you've said about this course is a complete lie. I take great offence at what you've written.

Frankly, I'm sick of you and your continued unnecessary vendetta of hate, abuse and lies against this training company.

Please ignore anything Pipala has written. Nothing she has said is true and she is choosing to deliberately misrepresent what was said on the course.

Wow Lindiriel.
You really seem to have got your knickers in a twist!!!
Would you care to explain your outburst especially why you have reported my post as Libellous?
Exactly where is the "lie" that I have written about the course I attended?
Why would you take great offence at my opinion on this particular doula course or indeed any other.
I am perfectly entitled to my view on the lack of doula training and regulation of doulas.
You are sick of me and my vendetta of hate! My god women take a grip.
I don't even know you and nor you me but you sound like all the other
do good doulas on the course.
Can't or won't listen to anyone who has a different view from the natural birth activists!
I pity you getting so worked up, think of your blood pressure.
I am perfectly entitled to express my view on here in answer to the op's question re her doula friend.
As you are a doula I expect this is why you are constantly attacking my posts as you can't take criticism of doulas in general.
I don't think the doula course I attended was worth it in terms of "learning" or instruction on how best to practise as a doula. It was not money well spent.
I think many mother's have no idea that doulas have had so little "training" and leave after a three day course and can then practise as a doula. Which is the OP's problem, a lay person thinking she know's better than a qualified doctor or midwife!
So if the op LISTENED AND RESPECTED her doula, what harm could befall her?

I am stating what I am about Pippala because I have already crossed swords with her about the lies she posts about doulas on MN.

She's already had one of her threads deleted because she made libellous comments yet she seems to have learnt nothing.

As a doula I enable, I don't give advice, I never tell anyone what to do and I would never under any circumstances tell anyone to ignore medical advice.

I find her lies deeply offensive.

I know for a fact she is conducting a hate campaign and I know precisely at who it is aimed.

She is a sad and malicious person.

Please ignore her.

Has the cat got your tongue singing doula?
How dramatic that you have crossed swords with me?
I know that you also "trained" with the same doula training company as me.
I don't have any personel axe to grind with you the lovely inspirational trainer or any other doula on a personel level.
The fact remains that vunareable pregnant women pay between £500 to £800 to have a doula present at their birth.
They pay this large amount of money to an experienced doula ( after 4 births classed as experienced) to empower them to have a "better" birth.
As I have said before in this country we have freedom of speech and with that I am entitled to raise the issue of doulas.
My axe to grind Lindriel as you know is that these women are taken to believe that the doula will "protect" their birth, ward off those pesky mw's who want them on therir backs and want to listen in to check baby's heartrate and OMG check dilation with a VE.
Do these women know what happens in the doula training course which gives their doula the experience and earning power?
The training is nothing more than a Mum's three day coffee morning without the toddlers present.
Then off you go you are a "trainee" doula.
Sign up with doula uk (the course leader set up Doula uk) for an additional £50 or there abouts. Pay another doula to mentor you for four births and HEY PRESTO you are a fully qualified "experienced doula who fees go from £200 to £500 overnight!!!!
I WANT MOTHERS TOP UNDERSTAND EXACTLY THE LEVEL OF EXPERIENCE THEY ARE PAYING FOR.
Now is this libellous or telling lies?
Ask any midwife how they feel about the student fees they are still paying off.
The hours/years of study they have put in. The 40 births not 4 that they had to write up before they were classed as experienced.
Then they are met with doulas in the labour room telling them their client will not consent to A,B,or C. And to kick them in the back the doula earns treble what the midwife earns by serving the NHS.
I understand you gave up nursing to become a doula? was that because the few hours per client you put in is so much more lucrative than working for the NHS?
I am entitled to my view as you are yours but I wouldn't report a post unless it was malicious, as you called me.
It is not malicious to whistle blow about doula training as it is not personel!

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOH dear, I can see your problem. You dont seem to have done your research properly, and you don't seem to have any understanding of how a Doula work's. One woman who lives near you who call's herself a Doula is not a very good basis for your crusade against Doulas.
Training is much more than 3 day's, that is just the start.
A minimum of 4 birth's can mean you are a recognised Doula NOT an experienced one. ( all on DUK web site for anyone to see )
Personally my fee has gone up very gradually, it has only just gone up to £450 now that I have been a Doula for 2 years. I think that for a month's wages it's not expensive.
I find it rather offensive that you insinuate that all Doulas behave in the way that you say, how could you know how all Doulas work.
Why compare them to midwives, Doulas are not a threat to midwives.
Maybe it would be wise to have a thought for all the women out there who have benefited from the support of a Doula, there are allot of them and they can't all be wrong or stupid as you are insinuating.