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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to want to give birth my way?

74 replies

changedforamin · 30/03/2011 15:38

NAME CHANGED TO AVOID HER WRATH FURTHER!

I have a friend who is now a 'Doula'. No training and all earth mother. She seems to think having five kids of her own made her an expert!

She recently told her neighbour, the night before she was to be induced, not to go through with it. She said she was giving her child the best chance by speaking up as a baby should arrive when it does and her body would know when that time was. The lady was 40+6 and had severe swelling.

I am due to be induced at 37weeks with DC and she has informed me this is a wrong decision to take. I am taking it after several meetings with my consultant and to help prevent previous complications. I still hope to have a natural delivery.

AIBU to think it is none of her business and if I wanted her oppinion I would have asked?

OP posts:
Prunnhilda · 30/03/2011 16:17

Pippala, for balance, I have done a doula 'training' course (I am not a doula though) and we covered a LOT of stuff about supporting women who have been sexually abused as children, how to support fathers, the boundaries between giving information and giving advice, etc. The message was that the medical staff - while they may not have a good attitude about it sometimes - are the experts, full stop. WRT induction, doulas should not advise women to not turn up, however many wry comments they might feel moved to make about whether or not induction is overused.

SnapFrakkleAndPop · 30/03/2011 16:21

There are good doula training courses and bad doula training courses. Don't tar them all with the same brush.

Similarly there are good doulas and bad doulas. VEs etc are not obligatory, sometimes they are downright unhelpful and sometimes they are necessary - but something like that does have to be a woman's choice. A doula shouldn't be saying to a mother 'don't have a VE', she should be saying 'if you don't want one then you don't have to have one, this is the information about why it might not be necessary etc' and she should be advocating to the MWs that the mother she's supporting doesn't want a VE. If a MW truly thinks it's necessary, though, the doula needs to be able to put her personal feelings to one side and support the mother through the process.

I think the most important thing in a doula is for them to know their limits. Supporting and even advocating natural childbirth is fine, pretending they know better is not.

bubbleymummy · 30/03/2011 16:23

I'm not sure what your previous complications are so I'm not sure if her advice is well meant (to offer an alternative perspective) or just downright dangerous! I suppose there are ways to approach these things and if she is being pushy when you are happy with your decision then it really is a bit misguided. However, my friend has recently 'gone against' the advice of several consultants, drs etc who were recommending a c-section based on her previous 3rd degree tear. She is a doctor herself and knew that some of the consultants were a bit too eager to give c-sections for everything so she declined and gave birth naturally to a bigger baby with no tearing! So sometimes just because consultants are recommending something does not mean it is the best and only way. As I said before, I don't know your back story so I'm not saying that is true in your situation.

bubbleymummy · 30/03/2011 16:25

Sorry - 'advice' is probably the wrong word there because I don't think doulas are supposed to give advice...just support...

manfromCUK · 30/03/2011 16:32

YANBU - Having a child is the start of a lifetime of unsolicited and often unwanted advice. Sail your own ship.

Spudulika · 30/03/2011 17:02

Doulas have no medical training.

She shouldn't be telling you what you ought to do.

Good luck with your induction.

Spudulika · 30/03/2011 17:04

Sorry - also agree with bubbleymummy. Have myself gone against advice of consultant re: induction and having my baby at home. But that was MY choice, and nobody pushed me into it. Had support from a consultant midwife.

abenstille · 30/03/2011 17:06

She sounds like a really bad doula. Mine was great and fully supported all of my birth choices

fatlazymummy · 30/03/2011 18:40

So she isn't actually a 'douala' then, she has just decided to call herself one, as she has had 5 children.
So if I had 5 dogs I could call myself a vet .
It's all a load of cobblers really, isn't it. I would tell her so, also warn any other pregnant women in the vicinity not to take any notice of her.

Prunnhilda · 30/03/2011 18:45

Anyone can call themselves a doula, it's not a protected title.
I know 'rogue doulas' are of great concern to the established, professional ones - specifically because of the potential danger to women.
There is quite a lot of (voluntary) CPD if you join the big doula organisations, and complaints are taken seriously afaik.

Original poster
changedforamin · 31/03/2011 12:00

bubblymummy previous complications are severe pre-eclampsia, ECC(on one occasion), post birth clotting and 4 seperate blood transfusions. Left hospital when DS was almost 10days after I was stabalised, 7days with DS2.

fatlazymummy She has been on two training weekends, held in other doulas homes. Did not get accepted to uni as could not complete the college nc required.

I just feel that she is scaring women and also making me feel a bit useless as a mum (DS's seem to be surviving, lol). She has questioned my pram choice with a 'sneering' oh, body to body contact is much better (DS2 is only 2yrs). Asked do I intend to REALLY try breastfeeding this time, as BF for 9mths is sub standard to her and can't believe we will put baby into child care after my maternity leave as I work form home, yes I do but I cant have meetings with a baby in tow (baby is going in for 2days a week from 11mths!).

OP posts:
Chil1234 · 31/03/2011 12:08

I was going to say... be careful about keeping this woman as a friend once your baby arrives because she's probably going to be as opinionated about child-rearing as she clearly is about birth techniques. All mothers are happy to share experiences and offer advice but if you've got a real bossy-boots know-it-all in your midst it might be best to give her a wide berth.

She sounds like a bully... not a friend.

worraliberty · 31/03/2011 12:11

Twat the silly cow.

Prunnhilda · 31/03/2011 12:11

It isn't unusual to have training courses in homes, as premises can be expensive. Weekends are normal - a lot of the trainers and attendees have children, and travel around to give/take courses, so obviously it solves everyone's childcare problems to a degree. These are details that I feel you're picking on to make it look less worthwhile when what you should be focussing on is that she sounds like a loon!

You know what your medical history is. You know what you want. You know how you're going to manage your life post-birth. It isn't any of her business. She'll carry on like that for a bit and she'll get a reputation for saying the wrong things (I know a doula who has not got work because the word-of-mouth she's getting is bad). Good luck with everything, you sound very sorted!

StealthPolarBear · 31/03/2011 12:12

Surely a doula shouldbe supporting women in her choices??
Would be interested to see what Lulumama has to say about this
She sounds very opinionated and not scared to push her views onto others
Take my advice :o as the parents you and DH are best placed in most cases to know what is best (and where not, it would be a HCP)

StealthPolarBear · 31/03/2011 12:13

"Asked do I intend to REALLY try breastfeeding this time, as BF for 9mths is sub standard to her "

Shock She obv knows nothing about supporting women to bf, and nothing about the bf rates in this country!
Prunnhilda · 31/03/2011 12:14

A good doula wouldn't get involved in those sorts of conversations with friends or strangers - pushing their view - in the first place.

AnyoneforTurps · 31/03/2011 12:26

YANBU. Childbirth IS a natural process but one which kills 1:200 mothers if they don't have access to healthcare. In some areas e.g. Afghanistan as many as 1:20 die.

That's not to say most births need to be highly medicalised of course but the "birth is a natural process so you shouldn't interfere" argument is rubbish; unless of course you think it's OK for lots of women and babies to die. Next time she says anything, ask her if she knows what the maternal mortality rate in developing countries is.

Original poster
changedforamin · 31/03/2011 13:49

Thanks everyone.

Prunnhilda I was more stating that in the 3yrs she has been calling herself a Doula she has only attended two weekends and failed a basic NC in Health. She has also attended 2 births. This is why I feel she is not remotely qualified.

I think the best thing to do is politely distance myself as I get more agitated the more she offers her very unwanted 'advice'.

OP posts:
StealthPolarBear · 31/03/2011 13:56

You could give her this thread for her professional development :o

VivaLeBeaver · 31/03/2011 13:59

It worries me a lot when a "qualified" doula is giving out advice let alone someone who hasn't even done any doula training. I see a lot of dangerous advice from doulas as well as some sensible advice on MN.

VivaLeBeaver · 31/03/2011 14:06

Pippala makes a good point about the doulas she's encountered that advise mothers to ignore some advice from Drs/midwives and tell them to refuse xyz.

I'm all for women making an informed choice and if they want to refuse xyz then that's fine.

But I do think that if someone with the title of "doula" is telling a pregnant women that then it strays into dangerous territory. The mother could well think that the doula is an expert, etc and think that if the doula is saying its OK to do this then it is OK to do it. I really thought that doulas were meant to be advocates and emotional support - not leading women down certain pathways. And I have certainly seen that.

If the woman says to teh doula I don't think I want whatever can you support me in that if the Dr comes in the room and tells me I ought to have it done - fine. The Dr can explain the consequences, the woman can consider her options and make a choice. If the Dr recommends something and the Doula says "oh no, Annie you don't need that, ignore the Dr love we're not having that done". Well thats a different ball game.

Prunnhilda · 31/03/2011 14:49

I think there might be a bit of misunderstanding about what a normal doula actually does Grin

"Out of the way, this woman will NOT be being induced and you medically-trained imbeciles will have me to answer to if she is!" - er NO

The OP's friend seems to have got it all a bit wrong in her head.

Lindiriel · 12/04/2011 12:29

Pippala,

I have reported you to MN for your libellous post. What you've said about this course is a complete lie. I take great offence at what you've written.

Frankly, I'm sick of you and your continued unnecessary vendetta of hate, abuse and lies against this training company.

Please ignore anything Pipala has written. Nothing she has said is true and she is choosing to deliberately misrepresent what was said on the course.

Doulas must abide by the Code of Condct of their regulating organisation and DO NOT give advice or ever suggest to women that they should ignore medical advice.

The company who run the training course to which Pippala refers regulate doulas and are also affiliated to Doula UK who regulate doulas.

Our job is to enable women to make informed decisions and to support women in those choices.

We work WITH HCPs not against them.

Of course there are 'rogue' doulas like the one mentioned by the OP but because they are not part of these organisations very little can be done to stop them behaving like this. Please ensure that if you do choose to have a doula that she is member of a recognised doula organisation.

purplebrickroad · 12/04/2011 12:44

Ignore her. Ignore her. Try to be polite, but ignore. Check back in to mn once you have whelped. Ignore.