to resent the time change for British summer time at the weekend?

[LunarRose]

My body is stubbornly refusing to adjust and I'm up way past my bed time (an I'm an adult)

Is it really necessary to change the clocks and have british summer time??

Why are the roads icy and untreated in the first place gaelicsheep?

This whole thing is a good argument for flexible working.

Not for nurses or shop assistants or calcentre workers unfortunately, but for anyone with a job that just has to be done that day instead of between these hours why not let them do it at a time that suits them better? Not just 9-5 but 7-3 if they are mad morning people or 11-7 if they'd rather. Or even 7-11 and then 3-6 if they like a siesta.

I don't get this, it's only an hour! 1 hour! Surely that can't make too much difference to sleep patterns in an adult! I understand with babies/small children. DH drives me mad with this as well, takes him ages 'to adjust' WTF!

Gaelicsheep I'm against year round BST too. The sun wont rise until 9am and I don't want to travel to work in the dark.

I hope you get your independence though as the Barnett Formula will have to be scrapped which is great.

It's Benjamin Franklin's fault.
here

And I agree A1980 the Barnett Formula is a disgrace.
Time for an English Parliament.

i am in scotland adn i don't get the whole 'risking our childrens lives so the southerners can play after school' bollocks. we in are in scotland not greenland.

i prefer the lighter evenings.

What I don't understand is, for Scotland, okay, there will be icy roads - not good, but travelling in darkness in the morning for longer, um. Don't you have this in the evening anyway? When I lived in Scotland in winter it was only light, pretty much between 9 and 3. So having it light between 10 and 4 is not much better/worse, or is it mainly the icy roads thing?

I'm with Duplicitous-I'm in Scotland too, and it's going to be dark at 1 end of the day, so the argument of it being dark in the morning doesn't hold for me-I'd rather have the dark morning and light at the other end of the day.

I do suffer massively from SAD so I LOVE the lighty nights and positively thrive in the summer time-I'm convinced I was born on the wrong continent!

the roads are icy anyway ime. i used to travel to work at 7.30 or 9.00 depending on who did the school run and it was equally horrific at both times.

The point is, clearly, that if there is even a chance of it making the roads in northern Scotland even more dangerous then it would be utter stupidity to change the status quo for the sake of a bit more fun time in the late afternoon for some down south.

In the pitch black the temperature in mid winter is routinely down to minus 10, often lower. By the time dawn is breaking the temperature is at least slowly rising. This starts to give the grit time to work in with the traffic and by the time the sun comes up the roads might just be driveable, meaning that with flexible working you can safely start at 10. If it isn't light until 10 I can see many a morning's work/school being missed. By 3 o'clock in the afternoon when it starts to go dark in mid winter the grit has been well worked in and road conditions are usually a bit better.

As for whoever suggested moving south - yes what a good idea! If we northern Scots don't like it we can up sticks to good old England-shire - problem solved. Except I very gladly upped sticks from said England-shire and will never be going back - especially with the ignorant England-centric attitudes on display here. I never used to believe people who said that the English had a total disregard for the Scots - that was until I heard of this proposal and the complete lack of care for the safety of Scottish children.

Right, said my piece. Will be voting SNP in the forthcoming elections and that is something I would never have done before the current London shower got into power.

Please return to your light hearted thread. But the bottom line is "If it ain't broke, don't fix it!". Would that the Government applied that to their general policy.

Why don't Scottish schools and businesses set their hours to suit whatever daylight they do have though?

I do understand the issue - as I've said, in winter my DD goes to school in the dark and the roads are often icy. If it was much worse I'd get winter tyres (don't people in Scotland do this anyway? - a lot of Northern Europeans do as a matter of course) This isn't an anti-scots issue - its how to make the best of limited daylight overall. (I live quite close to one of the places reckoned to be the centre of Britain - its a lot further north than most English people realise!)

Winter tyres help to a point but they are not a magic solution and they don't make the roads any less dangerous. In fact if people DO think they are a magic solution they would de facto make the roads - or at least the people on them - even MORE dangerous.

I sincerely hope that if this is imposed on us then schools and businesses would do just that. But I still do not see the point of changing. For us it would be dark at the end of the day regardless - 3.30 or 4.30 makes little difference. But 9 compare with 10 o'clock makes a massive difference. And if they plan to change to double BST in the summer as has been mooted then northern Scotland will become the new land of the midnight sun.

Gaelicsheep as said I am against year round BST too. I like it the way it is with GMT in winter.

But I have to take issue with your comments regarding the safety of Scottish children in darm mornings. Have you considered that Icelandic, Norwegian, Swedish, Finnish, etc children have far less day light that Scotland during winter. I've been to Iceland in winter, the sun rises at 12pm and sets about 4pm and the daylight is very very weak. In the very far north of some nordic countries the sun does not rise at all. They cope.

Even though I disagree with BST imposed year round I think you are being melodramatic.

Good for you voting for SNP. I am in full support of Scotland gaining full independance as you wish becasue you will kiss goodbye to the Barnett Formula and any help from English taxes. And before you call me rascist, my paretns are Scottish

I am not saying it would be more dangerous - I don't know if it would or it wouldn't. I am taking issue with the fact that the possibility is not being considered by those in favour of change for change's sake, and is in fact dismissed as irrelevant. All children are equal, but English children would appear to be more equal than Scottish children. That is my point.

I am absolutely sure that northern Scotland would find ways of coping just as the other countries do. We are already a hundred times better at coping with winter than anywhere else in the UK. But it totally grates on me that we would have to for the sake of a bit more daylight later in the day.

All children are equal, but English children would appear to be more equal than Scottish children. That is my point.

From my perspective Scottish people are more equal than English people.
Barnett Formula, free prescritpions, free eye tests, free care for the elderly, free dental check ups, access to expensive cancer drugs denied to the English. That grates on me!

Careful what you wish for with the independence though, Scotland may not be able to afford all the things listed above without the barnett formula.

There's no moving of sunrise/sunset that will make 6-7 hours of usable sunlight any longer. I am a fan of midday being in the middle of the day. I'm in the far North of England and prefer it to get light before 9am so I have a chance of actually waking up in the morning and don't have to walk the kids to (or from) school in the full dark. I also have a child with ASD who can not get to sleep if there is any daylight. I'd be very happy with GMT all year.

I've been constantly tired since Sunday. I've ironically being falling asleep at the proper time (midnight or earlier!) but have been repeatedly waking up all night. I'm wiped.

And on that, note, I'm going to go take a nytol and snuggle down with my kindle.

Well those things are down to devolution and how the Scots choose to spend their money. Don't forget all the Scottish oil revenue that goes into UK Government coffers.

Anyhow I am not well versed in those arguments, finding myself in an unfamiliar position veering towards the side of independence thanks to the shocking bunch of morons that currently form the UK Government. Maybe it would be a good thing, maybe it wouldn't. But I currently thank God that we are cushioned from Cameron's most hair-brained ideas. And I did actually vote Lib Dem God help me.

"Well those things are down to devolution and how the Scots choose to spend their money."

The barnett forumla gives you a fair share of English taxes too. So you're spending our money too on those things that the English can't have for themsleves.

As I said I am not familiar with the ins and outs of that. It is something that is claimed all the time in these types of discussions, but I would need to see hard facts. I will look into it for myself.

Perhaps the UK Government is just too busy war-mongering to worry about prescription charges?

I am a fan of midday being in the middle of the day

yes, but who lives their lives symmetrically around noon? If we have say 8 hours sleep a night, do you know anyone who goes to sleep at 8 and rises at 4? In summer, at the point where there are about 16 hours of daylight would anyone really want it light at 4am and dark by 8 (which is what would happen if we kept GMT). The actual midpoint of the active day is more like 3pm than 12am. Its far easier to shut light out with blackout curtains for early-bedding children, and let adults enjoy the light evenings, than it is to shut out the noise of the bloody dawn chorus.

"All children are equal, but English children would appear to be more equal than Scottish children."

You can hardly blame us for living in a country that has more hours of daylight to play with. That would be the curvature of the Earth.

I think though, the biggest reason for wanting to permanently change to BST is not so English children can play outside (as far as I'm aware?) but to be in line with the rest of Western Europe, which could lead to economic advantages etc. etc. It's not (entirely) about pissing off the Scots

and before anyone jumps all over me for being all anti-scottish and what not. 1. I'm not English 2. I spent very formative (and fabulous) years living in Scotland and I technically consider myself to have spent more time living in Scotland than England (because the majority time has been in London, and lets be fair, it's hardly English. It's London).

I'm glad the clocks have changed back. I can actually do things in the evening outdoors now, instead of going to work and back in the dark or near dark. Makes such a difference to my quality of life to be able to run or ride my horse in the daylight.

I lived in Aberdeen for several years and its miserable in winter no matter what time you go to work in the morning. Some days it barely gets light at all. I'm sick of hearing my fellow Scots moaning about keeping daylight in the mornings for the very few who will be affected for a few months. If its that much of a serious problem, then you have to either look at different time zones or starting schools later in the day and finishing later, rather than inconveniencing the whole country. Otherwise, I would rather not spend 6 months of the year living in darkness, which is what happens if you work in an office in Scotland, going home in the darkness, never seeing proper daylight for 5 days out of every 7. An extra hour of daylight in the evenings would make so much difference.

Although I suspect a lot of the moaning is based more on a desire to be seen as different from the rest of Britain. Here in the central belt, where most Scottish people live, I doubt it would make very much difference at all.

As for farmers, very few of them are without electricity or headlights on tractors.

I'm in Scotland too and I would prefer it if we stayed on BST all year round (sorry Gaelicsheep).

I too have been to Iceland and like A1980 says, the sun rises about midday and sets about 4pm - yet the result is that it feels lighter for longer. Yes, you go to work/school in the dark - but it is still light(ish) when you come home. Becasue they are further West than us, they are effectively on "double summer time" in summer and "summer time" in winter (they never change their clocks) IYSWIM.

I am old enough to remember the expriment when we stayed on BST for a couple of winters - I walked to primary school in the dark wearing high viz jackets.

Guess what - even on GMT, it can still be dark in the mornings in Scotland. My understadning is that research (from that trial?) suggests that there would be fewer accidents in "half-light" in the mornings, becasue drivers concentrate better/their eyes are more attuned to the light, whereas kids coming home in the half light (as they do on GMT) are more at risk becasue cars haven't necessarily put their lights on/drivers haven't adjusted for the decreasing light.

So on safety grounds - as well as the fact that it would mean that ds could run around a bit more outside in the evenings - I would prefer that we stayed on BST.

Exactly prettybird. Deliberately making it get dark earlier in the evenings in Scotland has always seemed quite stupid to me. In Aberdeen in winter, it gets dark about 3.30pm and it always seemed dark in the mornings for going to work too. Its so depressing. That extra hour of daylight in the evening would make such a difference.

I also fail to see why a whole country should adjust its hours because of a small minority in the north. In Norway (which Alex Salmond always likes to pretend Scotland has similarities with), the "problem" is dealt with by the standard working day starting at 8am (schools included) or earlier and finishing at 4pm.