to resent the time change for British summer time at the weekend?

[LunarRose]

My body is stubbornly refusing to adjust and I'm up way past my bed time (an I'm an adult)

Is it really necessary to change the clocks and have british summer time??

[cakeretention]

Already it's still light when I put the DCs to bed at 7pm. God forbid that we have double summer time - it would be light till 11pm in June. Don't think theyd ever go to sleep.

[CrystalQueen]

They change the clocks in Europe too you know. So all that would happen if we didn't change ours is that half of the time we would be on the same time as Europe, and half of the year we would be an hour out. Not sure that is much of an improvement. Yes, they manage in Norway and it's further north - but they still have daylight saving time!

[pointydog]

yabu to resent it. It's only one hour. There's no tricky adjustment to be had.

[nijinsky]

The thing is, if you stay on BST, it means the really dark nights start later on in the winter and last less long. So in February, instead of it being dark at 5.00pm, it would be 6.00pm. Same in November. You could actually do things after work. I have never seen the point that, as soon as the days start to shorten, the clocks are adjusted to make it dark even earlier!

It would also mean running tracks, football tracks and whatever stay unfrozen and frost free slightly longer, thus meaning they aren't closed half the winter, so children and adults can use them more often.

If there really is a specific problem, then there should be a move towards starting work at 8am or 7.30am. Norway manages, and its further north. The Scottish Parliament are always sending reps to Trondheim for some reason to study their road charging scheme (been there and never seen so many miserable people trudging about), you would think they could learn some other things too.

As for winter tyres in Scotland, yes of course people should use them. I do, but then I've lived in Germany where they're compulsary in winter. But actually I think if more people here actually had tread on their tyres, it would really cut down on the number of accidents.

[gaelicsheep]

However I will allow that France and Spain are already arguably in the wrong time zone. Britain is in the correct time zone but we want to change that. I just don't see why. Anyhow I've better things to do to keep going over this one. I would have thought that the Govt has better things to do too - hope they realise that.

[gaelicsheep]

Time zones are based on longitude are they not? So we are in a different time zone from most of the continent because we are are further west. Same reason as Portugal is in a different time zone from Spain. I find it totally incredible that the home of GMT wants to ditch it.

[WinterOfOurDiscountTents]

Who's on a different longitude to who? The whole continent is on different longitudes,as is Scotland to Wales, so I don't understand your point whatsoever.

[gaelicsheep]

But clearly the fact we are on GMT and not continental time is because we are on a different longitude, so it's a bit daft claiming we should be in the same time zone. Yes I'm playing devil's advocate a bit, but essentially it's about geography. I am totally against change for change's sake. And I agree that we should ideally stay on GMT all year round.

[Bluemoonrising]

Can I just say, as someone from the very very VERY north of scotland that I don't give two hoots which way the clocks stay - as long as they get rid of the freaking add an hour/lose an hour nonsense that goes on.

It will make sod all difference in winter - its dark in the morning, its dark in the afternoon. There is a short bit in the middle when it is light, but blink and you'll miss it, it really doesn't matter to me if its an hour earlier or later.

/rant mode off

[WinterOfOurDiscountTents]

I'm actually laughing at the scots people crying discrimination against their children. Like Trillian said, blame the curvature of the earth for that one. You live somewhere where you get less daylight hours, its not really the job of the rest of the world to compensate you. If its really so awful, you could always move?

[prettybird]

Like you, I hate going to work in the dark and coming home in the dark for months :( - and I'm Central Belt!

[nijinsky]

Exactly prettybird. Deliberately making it get dark earlier in the evenings in Scotland has always seemed quite stupid to me. In Aberdeen in winter, it gets dark about 3.30pm and it always seemed dark in the mornings for going to work too. Its so depressing. That extra hour of daylight in the evening would make such a difference.

I also fail to see why a whole country should adjust its hours because of a small minority in the north. In Norway (which Alex Salmond always likes to pretend Scotland has similarities with), the "problem" is dealt with by the standard working day starting at 8am (schools included) or earlier and finishing at 4pm.

[prettybird]

I'm in Scotland too and I would prefer it if we stayed on BST all year round (sorry Gaelicsheep).

I too have been to Iceland and like A1980 says, the sun rises about midday and sets about 4pm - yet the result is that it feels lighter for longer. Yes, you go to work/school in the dark - but it is still light(ish) when you come home. Becasue they are further West than us, they are effectively on "double summer time" in summer and "summer time" in winter (they never change their clocks) IYSWIM.

I am old enough to remember the expriment when we stayed on BST for a couple of winters - I walked to primary school in the dark wearing high viz jackets.

Guess what - even on GMT, it can still be dark in the mornings in Scotland. My understadning is that research (from that trial?) suggests that there would be fewer accidents in "half-light" in the mornings, becasue drivers concentrate better/their eyes are more attuned to the light, whereas kids coming home in the half light (as they do on GMT) are more at risk becasue cars haven't necessarily put their lights on/drivers haven't adjusted for the decreasing light.

So on safety grounds - as well as the fact that it would mean that ds could run around a bit more outside in the evenings - I would prefer that we stayed on BST.

[nijinsky]

I'm glad the clocks have changed back. I can actually do things in the evening outdoors now, instead of going to work and back in the dark or near dark. Makes such a difference to my quality of life to be able to run or ride my horse in the daylight.

I lived in Aberdeen for several years and its miserable in winter no matter what time you go to work in the morning. Some days it barely gets light at all. I'm sick of hearing my fellow Scots moaning about keeping daylight in the mornings for the very few who will be affected for a few months. If its that much of a serious problem, then you have to either look at different time zones or starting schools later in the day and finishing later, rather than inconveniencing the whole country. Otherwise, I would rather not spend 6 months of the year living in darkness, which is what happens if you work in an office in Scotland, going home in the darkness, never seeing proper daylight for 5 days out of every 7. An extra hour of daylight in the evenings would make so much difference.

Although I suspect a lot of the moaning is based more on a desire to be seen as different from the rest of Britain. Here in the central belt, where most Scottish people live, I doubt it would make very much difference at all.

As for farmers, very few of them are without electricity or headlights on tractors.

[AbsDuCroissant]

I think though, the biggest reason for wanting to permanently change to BST is not so English children can play outside (as far as I'm aware?) but to be in line with the rest of Western Europe, which could lead to economic advantages etc. etc. It's not (entirely) about pissing off the Scots

and before anyone jumps all over me for being all anti-scottish and what not. 1. I'm not English 2. I spent very formative (and fabulous) years living in Scotland and I technically consider myself to have spent more time living in Scotland than England (because the majority time has been in London, and lets be fair, it's hardly English. It's London).

[TrillianAstra]

"All children are equal, but English children would appear to be more equal than Scottish children."

You can hardly blame us for living in a country that has more hours of daylight to play with. That would be the curvature of the Earth.

[GrimmaTheNome]

I am a fan of midday being in the middle of the day

yes, but who lives their lives symmetrically around noon? If we have say 8 hours sleep a night, do you know anyone who goes to sleep at 8 and rises at 4? In summer, at the point where there are about 16 hours of daylight would anyone really want it light at 4am and dark by 8 (which is what would happen if we kept GMT). The actual midpoint of the active day is more like 3pm than 12am. Its far easier to shut light out with blackout curtains for early-bedding children, and let adults enjoy the light evenings, than it is to shut out the noise of the bloody dawn chorus.

[gaelicsheep]

As I said I am not familiar with the ins and outs of that. It is something that is claimed all the time in these types of discussions, but I would need to see hard facts. I will look into it for myself.

Perhaps the UK Government is just too busy war-mongering to worry about prescription charges?

[A1980]

"Well those things are down to devolution and how the Scots choose to spend their money."

The barnett forumla gives you a fair share of English taxes too. So you're spending our money too on those things that the English can't have for themsleves.

[gaelicsheep]

Well those things are down to devolution and how the Scots choose to spend their money. Don't forget all the Scottish oil revenue that goes into UK Government coffers.

Anyhow I am not well versed in those arguments, finding myself in an unfamiliar position veering towards the side of independence thanks to the shocking bunch of morons that currently form the UK Government. Maybe it would be a good thing, maybe it wouldn't. But I currently thank God that we are cushioned from Cameron's most hair-brained ideas. And I did actually vote Lib Dem God help me.

[ouryve]

There's no moving of sunrise/sunset that will make 6-7 hours of usable sunlight any longer. I am a fan of midday being in the middle of the day. I'm in the far North of England and prefer it to get light before 9am so I have a chance of actually waking up in the morning and don't have to walk the kids to (or from) school in the full dark. I also have a child with ASD who can not get to sleep if there is any daylight. I'd be very happy with GMT all year.

I've been constantly tired since Sunday. I've ironically being falling asleep at the proper time (midnight or earlier!) but have been repeatedly waking up all night. I'm wiped.

And on that, note, I'm going to go take a nytol and snuggle down with my kindle.

[A1980]

All children are equal, but English children would appear to be more equal than Scottish children. That is my point.

From my perspective Scottish people are more equal than English people.
Barnett Formula, free prescritpions, free eye tests, free care for the elderly, free dental check ups, access to expensive cancer drugs denied to the English. That grates on me!

Careful what you wish for with the independence though, Scotland may not be able to afford all the things listed above without the barnett formula.

[gaelicsheep]

I am not saying it would be more dangerous - I don't know if it would or it wouldn't. I am taking issue with the fact that the possibility is not being considered by those in favour of change for change's sake, and is in fact dismissed as irrelevant. All children are equal, but English children would appear to be more equal than Scottish children. That is my point.

I am absolutely sure that northern Scotland would find ways of coping just as the other countries do. We are already a hundred times better at coping with winter than anywhere else in the UK. But it totally grates on me that we would have to for the sake of a bit more daylight later in the day.

[A1980]

Gaelicsheep as said I am against year round BST too. I like it the way it is with GMT in winter.

But I have to take issue with your comments regarding the safety of Scottish children in darm mornings. Have you considered that Icelandic, Norwegian, Swedish, Finnish, etc children have far less day light that Scotland during winter. I've been to Iceland in winter, the sun rises at 12pm and sets about 4pm and the daylight is very very weak. In the very far north of some nordic countries the sun does not rise at all. They cope.

Even though I disagree with BST imposed year round I think you are being melodramatic.

Good for you voting for SNP. I am in full support of Scotland gaining full independance as you wish becasue you will kiss goodbye to the Barnett Formula and any help from English taxes. And before you call me rascist, my paretns are Scottish

[gaelicsheep]

Winter tyres help to a point but they are not a magic solution and they don't make the roads any less dangerous. In fact if people DO think they are a magic solution they would de facto make the roads - or at least the people on them - even MORE dangerous.

I sincerely hope that if this is imposed on us then schools and businesses would do just that. But I still do not see the point of changing. For us it would be dark at the end of the day regardless - 3.30 or 4.30 makes little difference. But 9 compare with 10 o'clock makes a massive difference. And if they plan to change to double BST in the summer as has been mooted then northern Scotland will become the new land of the midnight sun.