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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

to not understand some of the logic involved in 'not treating food as treats'?

62 replies

MrsOtter · 28/03/2011 10:03

I don't understand some of the things I hear regarding children and food and would appreciate clarification.

If you say that you do not offer any food as a treat then how do you teach 'in moderation?'. If it's not a treat do you not buy a birthday cake, as surely the cake is a treat?

I completely understand not offering food as rewards and never do this myself. However, the idea of it not being a treat baffles me.

I have never made a big fuss of dd having a cake or chocolate, she is 3 and I am teaching her that some foods need to be eaten in moderation. So she can eat as much fruit and vegetables as she likes but sweets, biscuits, cakes and crisps are to be eaten in moderation. She understands that she should only eat a 'little bit' of sweets because they are not good for her teeth.

If I did as some people suggest and show her no difference between her having a piece of fruit or a cake, she would, of her own accord, choose cake everytime and then end up overweight with bad teeth and no education re. food.

So, I guess what I'm saying is AIBU to feel that food given in moderation will always been viewed as a treat by the child, and by not giving in moderation you are not looking after the physical wellbeing of your child or educating them?

OP posts:

blue2711 · 28/03/2011 22:02

Yes!

Prunnhilda · 28/03/2011 22:26

We hardly ever have pudding.
Both of our families didn't really do it either, growing up.
Why do you have it every day?
(Genuine and not snarky question!)

theinet · 28/03/2011 23:19

i lived in a no pud household, except at christmas and birthdays . deserts were apples or other fruit. sad!

Bubbaluv · 28/03/2011 23:29

No obesity problems in our families so I use food as a reward as if I were training dogs. Works a treat!
Just started potty training for DS 2 who is nearly 2. Every time he uses the potty he gets a little (tiny) biscuit. The real key though is that his older brother gets one too. So now DS1 is watching DS2 like a hawk and making sure he uses the potty! Potty training effectively delegated!

Soups · 28/03/2011 23:34

I bribe my kids with chocolate A couple of times a week we have a Taste Challenge at meal times. I hold up a chocolate and ask them what they're willing to do for one, bit like a Scooby Snack. The looks of their faces amuses me as they lick mustard and chilli sauce.

JaneS · 28/03/2011 23:36

Anything you eat too much of isn't good - you shouldn't eat 'as much as you like' of fruit and veg any more than you should of chocolate. I used to munch through a bag of apples a day in the belief that it was healthy until my dentist pointed out that the calories were fine but the acid in the apples was eating away at my teeth.

Prunnhilda · 29/03/2011 07:08

I have just remembered that (in our pudding-is-rare family ), I was a skinny child, while my brother, from about 6 to about 13, was fat. He was the fat kid in school, probably obese at one point. Exercised a LOT. We could never work it out as we had the same diet (home-cooked food but otherwise probably not perfect).
He claims that my father used to bribe him with food. (I don't remember this happening but he's adamant.) "If you just do this bit of homework you can have another mini-pizza" sort of thing.
I tend to think it was more puppy fat. He's tall and athletic now. (Really bitter about his weight as a child, though.)

savoycabbage · 29/03/2011 07:17

I don't like food to be used as something to do. At our school we have a longish assembly where all are welcome, but everybody gives food to their pre-schoolers to keep them quiet. I'm not one for that.

Bubbaluv · 29/03/2011 07:43

Oh I think that is 2 birds with one stone. They are quiet and they are eating something. Hallelujah!

exoticfruits · 29/03/2011 07:55

I think it is more important not to ban food-it instantly makes it desirable. Some foods are treats, in that you don't have them everyday. It is good to have treats, if you had them all the time they wouldn't be special.

overmydeadbody · 29/03/2011 08:03

I agree totally with TattyButtons.

OP I don't think it is food as a treat that people object to, it is food as a reward, bribe or punishment. So saying "if you do xxx you can have chocolate" or "well done for getting full marks on your spelling test, here's some sweets" etc. etc. that sends out the wrong message, using food as a reward.

What we have to teach our children is that food is something we eat for energy, not something we eat as a reward for being good. Moderation can still be taught that way.

bruffin · 29/03/2011 08:28

"What we have to teach our children is that food is something we eat for energy"

But food not just about energy it's about enjoyment, otherwise why do have restaurants. We could just meet up and take vitamin tablets. My dad was from cyprus and food is something to be relished and enjoyed there

I am far more worried about the control freaks on MN who get upset because someone had given their baby a bit of chocolate or ban sweets etc

I never banned anything and my DS's idea of a food treat when he was little was a "plates de mar" from tesco. It was a treat because it was expensive rather than "bad" for you.

We have taken DS's girlfriends out for days and it winds me up as they have so many issues about food, can't eat this or that. Both my DCs are tall slim teenagers with a fairly healthy attitude to food.

exoticfruits · 29/03/2011 19:01

I agree entirely bruffin. My teenagers are slim and we have never had issues, with foods being banned. Food is a sociable thing-we all went out on Saturday as a birthday celebration-of course we had treats! There is a thread at the moment where a father thinks it 'unacceptable' for a toddler to have an icecream on a hot day at the seaside!!!! He is well on the way to producing a DC who becomes an adult with an unhealthy relationship with food. (Likewise those who get upset about McDonald's or Easter eggs etc)

Original poster

MrsOtter · 30/03/2011 20:21

I'm glad I started this thread as it's really help clairfy the issue for me.

I agree that food isn't just fuel, it is attached to emotions, celebrations etc. I also agree that it any type of food can be a treat eg seasonal food or expensive rarely given food.

I think the way forward for us as a family will be to make sure food is not a bribe or reward

OP posts:

exoticfruits · 30/03/2011 22:48

I think that you recognise that some foods you eat a lot of, some you eat in small quantities and some on special occasions. The big mistake is to get them turning to food if upset or bored-or to ban it so that it is the one thing they want! The aim is to get them to self regulate and eat sensibly for life.

cory · 30/03/2011 23:44

Agreeing with several posters here: I want certain foods to feel special and exciting. When the first strawberries ripen on the allotment that's one of the great events of the year - I want dcs to know that. The special biscuits my mum makes for Christmas according to the recipe of her greatgrandmother are not just any old food stuff. I want them to know the difference between (duller) everyday food and the wonder of special party food or seasonal treats. Cream cakes are for birthdays and not for other times (but you can have a sponge cake on your nameday)- foreign culture here, evidently.

exoticfruits · 31/03/2011 08:11

It makes me sad when parents are so rigid that they can't relax and allow a DC special food on their birthday.
In the next few weeks, I predict, that the Easter egg issue will crop up-e.g. 'how unreasonable to buy my DC an egg'.

lucyintheskywithdinos · 31/03/2011 08:19

We talk about 'all the time foods' and 'sometimes' foods with DD1 (4), and as she has got older we have explained why, that always foods have lots of vitamins, protein etc and sometimes foods have a lot of sugar or a lot of fat/salt.

Seems to work so far, she asks for sweets a couple of times a week and often asks me if something she is eating is an always or a sometimes.

bubbleymummy · 31/03/2011 08:37

I could be wrong here but I get the impression that some people (here and on other threads) think that because you don't allow a young child things like chocolate/crisps etc that you have banned them and that will cause problems. I just don't see the point in introducing those foods early - I don't think it's going to effect their impression of food for the rest of their life if they're denied chocolate when they are 1!

bruffin · 31/03/2011 09:50

But it is not going to do them any harm if they have chocolate when they are one. Why ban it and get your knickers in a twist when someone gives it to them, it' s just something more to stress about.
It's not about the child having chocolate, it's about parental control and if you want to have that much control over something as inisignificant as a bit of chocolate then you are are going to be the same about every other aspect of their life and it will only lead to problems in the future.

mumblecrumble · 31/03/2011 10:10

We have a treats cupboard... things that are healthy to eat only a little bit a day go in there and DD (aged 3) is really good at this. I was very proud when a relative came over and gave her some sweets and she said 'I'll put them in the treats cupboard for after lunch'....

I offer her something from the cupboard most after tea times but she has mega small portions. E.g. she is allowed 5 haribo sweets or 1 biscuit or freddo chocolate bar. She chooses these treats at the supermarket and has 50p to spend.

She understands the difference between 'a meal' - the fuel of the day if you like, is encouraged to try new foods and is rewarded with verbal praise for eating nicely, trying things etc. Pudding is generally fruit based or yogurt. a 'snack' is like fruit, slice of toast etc and 'treat' is a small thing you have after dinner/tea. Ttrying to teach her that if you have too many treats or snacks you might miss lunch and then not be healthy.

i like the vocab of 'all the time foods' and 'sometimes foods..'...

Agree that all foods can be treats. DH is very good at encouraging DD to be thankful to me for making lunch and saying hpw much effort went into healthy food etc...

TattyDevine · 31/03/2011 10:18

I dont see a one year old who has never had chocolate as having been banned, so much as having their first taste delayed. That first taste will happen one day. The child who never tried chocolate ever must be very rare indeed, a non-party going home schooled very unusual child, surely. Nothing wrong with delaying that which they dont know. The issue really is how long do you delay it - and why. And that is a personal thing.

Food will always be linked to emotions, that is normal and that can't be stopped by the non-treat type philosophy but it shouldn't be all tangled up and entwined either - so the non-treat non reward casual approach can help to avoid that kind of situation. Probably still no guarantee because teenagers can create their own dynamics with things. But perhaps it will be delayed even if it does end up occuring anyway.

I think whether you do treats or not, bribes or not, or have a completely sugar free diet, one of the best things you can teach your child is to eat to satisfy their hunger and stop when they are full. To not ignore that full tummy feeling and to not ignore the tummy rumbly feeling. One argument is that its easier to do that if they dont have "treats" or sugary things - because you are more likely to listen to the true state of your hunger without those confusingly moreish foods. But another argument is that you need to listen to your hunger regardless of how nice the food is, and that those foods will happen one day...that if you eat them to satisfaction point without overstuffing, and can always do that, you've sorted moderation.

One thing I do say to my children if they want to eat something about 20 minutes before a meal is ready is that I want them to wait a bit so they dont "use up their tummy rumbles". If my son wants more of something a bit "nice" like custard I ask him if he has enough tummy rumbles. Sometimes he says no but his mouth wants it, so I tell him to wait until he has some tummy rumbles. By which time its the next meal and we tend to have something else anyway.

So much of the food part of parenting inadvertantly gets them to ignore their hunger signals. How often do you hear "just 3 more bites" or "this yogurt needs eating, it goes off at the end of today" or "you can't POSSIBLY be hungry AGAIN" etc. Most of it is pretty benign depending on context but you can really find yourself questioning it sometimes - particularly when I'm at my inlaws - I think to myself, actually, I dont like these overcooked veg, why should they, really? Or I dont feel like eating AGAIN, yet, so they probably dont either....and the list goes on.

bubbleymummy · 31/03/2011 10:50

"if you want to have that much control over something as inisignificant as a bit of chocolate then you are are going to be the same about every other aspect of their life"

That's a bit of a jump bruffin! Just because I don't want my children to have unhealthy foods at an early age I'm going to control every aspect of their lives? what a bizarre thought! Is that why you feel the need to introduce this things early? So you 'free' yourself from that need to control?

Good post Tatty!

Prunnhilda · 31/03/2011 11:03

Bruffin quite simply parents DO control their children's diets initially, so saying 'I don't think it's strictly necessary for a 1 yr old to have chocolate even if it won't do him any harm' is just the same (to my mind) as not wanting a 4 month old to not have a packet of chocolate buttons for dinner. If you were talking about controlling the diet of a 5 yr old, then I'd agree with your point.

Prunnhilda · 31/03/2011 11:07

Having said that, control over food and feeding is quite often indicative of general control issues.

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