to find this article on motherhood inFURiating?

[BlooferLady]

Guardian writer in 'motherhood is hell' shock

Disclaimer: je suis TTCing. Erm, for a LONG time!

I didn't want children for years. YEARS! Was violently opposed to it And you know why? Because it looked like one long unending saga of drudgery, misery, isolation and loss of identity and self-respect (I have a large family and thus had the opportunity to observe its effects up close every 18 months or so).

We're TTCing now - hormones and a little wisdom took over, and I would very much like to be a mother. And yet here on MN and in the press I find my old terrors reinforced, and this article sums it all up. Everything I feared is true...

BUT IS IT? By the end of the article I wanted to slap the woman. She complains of her life dwindling to a miserable compressed world of perma-exhaustion, leaking breasts, nappy changes, never seeing her old friends, losing her sense of a professional life, only ever socialising with mothers and mother and toddler groups, bitterly envying women who still go to work, angry with her partner for not helping out round the house...

Someone PLEASE tell me it doesn't have to be like this. I wanted to yell at her, get out of the damn house and DO stuff you moaning bint! No-one MAKES you go to mother and toddler groups - put the creature in a sling and wander round the V&A! Let your partner do a bottle feed in the evening and go out for a boozy dinner! Do some work from home! MAKE your partner help out!

Surely there are people here on MN whose entire character isn't subsumed into the drudgery of being a mother? Who continue to be lively, interested in the larger world, engaged with their friends, interested in their career, happy in their relationships, still maintaining a sense of self and self-respect? For motherhood extends, informs, illuminates their life - doesn't effectively end it! Because if not, I don't want children. AIBU?!

OP, one perspective that might be helpful is to think about how you might describe childless/childfree lifestyles in an article. I have long since given up categorising people as parents/non parents but think of them as "Suzy who makes great jam" or "James from the badminton club" etc. If you tried to say that all childless people had similar lives/lifestyles you would of course be wrong and would say the article couldn't possibly cover the wide range of experiences. As a non parent looking in, I'd say parenting is like that - yes, there are some similar bonding experiences, but there are also many, many differences. I have friends and family members who are parents (and some who are not!) and I can think of parents who are interested in goat breeding and S/M sex and non parents who are school governors and knit and spend their spare time making chutney while listening to the Archers.

I'm 46 and married and the life I lead now is markedly different to the life I led say when I was 26 even though in both cases I was not a parent.

In any case, those sorts of articles in the Guardian, or any other broadsheet, can only ever be a broad brush picture of one woman's experience, writing through the lens of being a professional journalist, with a set number of words and a deadline to meet - next week, she could be writing about something completely different. I tend to ignore them these days as I just find them irritating.

I have just stopped banging my head against the wall at the mention of Myers Briggs Type Indicators for long enough to say ...

... that making an informed choice to have a child is in some ways an oxymoron because parenthood is a unique reality that you, your partner and your baby construct together as you go along ...

... that, with apologies to Susan Jeffers, the only option is to either remain childless or feel the fear and do it anyway.

I did the latter, and am now juggling two small children, the final part of my psychology PhD, a part-time university teaching gig and my other half deployed with the army for great swathes of time.

It may be is aging me prematurely, but it is also the richest, funniest, most unpredictable and most delicious thing I have ever done. I can't wait / am somewhat terrified to see where it takes us next.

Sorry for all the ellipses

bloofer sorry if my post was unclear in regard to where the "bitch", "moaning", "insensitive" comments came from. I did read the thread, thanks, and they're all there, if you feel like reading it more closely to look for them. I said that it's a shame that the writer of the article was called those things. I didn't say that she was called those things by you .

You did, however, say that you'd like to slap her. And you did equate what she wrote in the article with the statement "motherhood is hell", which is completely inaccurate, and which did incite the kind of responses I refer to above.

That said, I understand your need to hear the good stuff about motherhood, and there is so much of it to hear. In my experience, it is absolutely everything it is cracked up to be and more. But it also involves periods of perma-exhaustion, leaking breasts, and envying women who carry on with their professional lives. That's just the truth, and there's no point in being infuriated with someone for telling the truth in an article about their life.

For what it's worth, my life is largely unrecognisable since becoming a mother, but to be honest 24-hour gratitude does kind of sum up the way I feel about having dd in my life.

However, I also strongly identify with the feelings of the writer of that article, which is why it rankles a bit to have someone reducing all that complexity down to "she thinks motherhood is hell" and saying they'd like to slap her for it.

Oh Cloudy given I've spent all day trying to reply sincerely to every poster I'm minded to be a touch incensed by your saying "if I feel like reading the thread"! I did say I felt like slapping her, 'tis true. But I don't think I'm going to apologise for it. It's not a genuine incitement to assault; it was a spot of semi-humorous exasperation.

And - yes - I did precis it as 'motherhood is hell' - because that is my reading of the way she described it. To me, loss of sense of self, loss of friends, obligations to socialise in a manner which brings no pleasure, and envy of other women, would be hell. You can't tell me I'm wrong to have responded in the way I did - is my head, and its contents are mine, if you see what I mean.

Anyway. I know I've rankled one or two and regret it. If nothing else this thread has proved that motherhood is the toughest task anyone's likely to undertake, whether they enjoy it or not, and my popping up with an appalled expression on my face can't help matters, that's for sure.

Bloofer I'm not telling you that you're wrong, I'm just putting forward my own opinion that the wording of the link was inaccurate and coloured subsequent posters' (especially those who acknowledged that they hadn't read the full article) impression of what the writer was saying.

It's hard not to take things personally or be defensive when comes to motherhood. In my experience, admitting that motherhood can at times feel less-than-rewarding is a hard thing to do, largely due to fear that people will want to slap you, maybe because they will assume that you aren't grateful or don't love your children enough. I understand now that that isn't where your frustration with the article was coming from, but that is how the OP read to me.

Don't be too incensed by my smartass comment re: reading the thread to find those comments; it was in response to your assumption in a previous post that I hadn't bothered to read it! Your OP rankled me, my post rankled you. I think I understand where you're coming from now, and I hope I've clarified my own point of view. Want to call it even and be friends? :)

And sincerely, the very best of luck with ttc.

God, I'm so lame: I actually sat up clicking 'refresh' in the hope you'd post back! Pax and pals indeed, and honestly I appreciate the time you have taken to respond, and everyone else. It's been MN at its best, I think. And thanks for the lucks! Technically speaking I should be TTCing right this minute but obviously talking about abstract unease is far more productive .

Night all, and to all, of whatever opinion, plenty of SLEEP!

This little spat has led to me having a little crush on you Bloofer . You sound like someone I'd like to debate these things with over a bottle or three of wine.

Stop hitting refresh and get thee to bed

It's a very very special time in spite of the unavoidable drudgery of the endless cycle of domesticity-but this is a small part of the day. I have never had a more sociable and varied day as I have as a mum, getting out doing stuff;the zoo, museums, parks, swimming.
I don't miss my career. To be honest I really feel to have missed out on this would have been to miss out on life itself-but I do think everyone is different and people have very different reactions to the experience of being a mum.

Good Luck- it will be so worth it. People struggle with transcending mundanity and it is part of life- and if you can somehow accept that parts of your day will be repetitive and still find some sort of satisfaction- it's a game really. to be with that and you do need to be creative mentally....but to be around this little developing person. Joy oh Joy.It's a small price to pay.

I quite like being a mother.

So do I, Morloth, so do I.

So do I, I really do.

I do too, so much! DH has been away on a business trip all week and before he left he told DS "you have to be a really good boy while I'm gone and be mommy's helper," and DS (he's three and a half) has really taken it to heart. :) He's gone to bed every night without a fuss and just generally been very obliging. I'm so proud of him! :) And it's so much fun just doing things with him; we baked and decorated a birthday cake for my mom, have taken the dog for a billion walks, and went to the cinema tonight for Gnomeo and Juliet. I'm his mother, not his "friend" certainly, but he's my little pal for sure. I don't know what I'd do without him!

Life goes on. By Monday evening my 8 month old will have visited his eighth country with very little associated drama, and with a travel bag smaller than the average happy bag I see at the supermarket. What are those things filled with? Imo just a giant con from the people selling all this cap you're told you need.

It is possible to work from home with a baby. I frequently start at 5 before he's awake. It's certainly harder as he demands more attention, but until he was 6 months a doddle. Don't forget to mute your line on conference calls!

The biggest unknown has to be the temperament of your baby, something you can do nothing to influence! If I had an 'easy' baby I would be off to the V&A with him in a sling, oh yes sir, but I don't. I love him, he's beautiful, he smells fantastic and he has a smile that could melt ice caps, but...he screams in the pram, car seat, and cot, and sometimes the sling too for good measure. He had colic and wouldn't sleep for the first 4 months, even in my bed. I look at friends who had easier babies around the same time and want to weep!

And it's a WHOLE lot better now than it was at first. Then I would have quite happily said that yes, it was hell. Utter hell.

Now I confess that I haven't read all of this thread so responding to OP and article. Firstly sounds very much like author of article had PND. I did with DC2 and so much of what she writes is familiar - can't emphasise enough how essential it is to get medical help with this condition, for you and for rest of your family. She's presenting an extremely bleak view of motherhood.

There is no doubt I think that motherhood is different to fatherhood! Partly due to biology, partly due to society. I had been with DH for a long time before DC and found it really difficult to cope with the fact that our relationship isn't equal (still struggling with that if I'm honest).

Probably also best to be realistic about career implications. I had a senior, responsible, well-paid job. Involved long hours and travelling. So does DH. Without a local, very willing grandparent (or similar!) or live in nanny, we couldn't see how we could both hold down those jobs and look after two young DC (1 and 4). I returned to work after DC1 but haven't yet after DC2 (1.5 yr old).

Four years in, I'm generally extremely happy. I love my children so much that quite often I can't sleep because I can't stop thinking about them. I'm trying to do something else career wise. I've found doing the little things really important - having a lie in at weekends (having one right now!), going out regularly with DH, weekends away with friends, exercise, hobbies etc.

So enjoy TTC and may you go forth and multiply!

DS1 is almost 7 now and he and I wandered off to the bookshop this afternoon. We browsed in our respective sections, both chose a couple of books, then we went for coffee and cake (well a juice for him) and had a little read of our books.

Before coming home and having an easy family BBQ with DH and DS2 (who is now old enough at 1 to actually play with DS1).

The little baby stuff can be a PITA (but has its own rewards) but DS1 in particular is such a joy because he just gives so much back now he is a full 'person' who you can hold an actual conversation with.

I read half the article before giving up with a HUGE yawn. Not read whole thread either.

Alot comes down to an individuals attitude - yes I'm sure it can feel like a neverending grind to feel & care for a young baby. Personally I just relaxed into it, saw maternity leave as a time to just go with the flow and I think the BF Hormones keep you feeling rather groovy actually.

As for women taking on all the domestic chores etc, well that might happen if you let it. But if you keep your partner involved and feeling responsible (and if that doesn't work then plain on INSIST he pulls his domestic weight and be very clear as to what that means) it can work.

BlooferLady:
It's not a stretch to say that your OP was inflammatory:
" I wanted to yell at her, get out of the damn house and DO stuff you moaning bint! No-one MAKES you go to mother and toddler groups - put the creature in a sling and wander round the V&A! Let your partner do a bottle feed in the evening and go out for a boozy dinner! Do some work from home! MAKE your partner help out!"

Calling someone a 'moaning bint' for expressing their real experience of motherhood is inflammatory and offensive (I would be offended had it been directed at me for expressing similar feelings, many of which I have had.) It is especially inflammatory given that you have not yet gone through the experience yourself (I wish you luck with TTC and hope that it works out for you if that is what you continue to want.) As many posters have said, it is hard to explain just why early motherhood is so hard for many people to people who haven't done it yet. I had similar feelings of 'put the creature in a sling and take him round the V&A' before I had a baby and actually realised how extremely difficult this can be for a whole host of reasons. Similarly with your other suggestions. As a general rule I don't believe that people always have had to have tried something before commenting on it, but I do feel that your tone and choice of words is pretty unsympathetic. Some people find it easy, some hard, I hope it's the former for you, but if not, you might find yourself in a mother and baby group eating your words.

First contribution ever! I find the assumption in the article that the workplace is 'real life' really strange. When I am sitting in a nursing home aged ninety I doubt I will have pictures of my work colleagues on my wall. I doubt my boss will visit me. I doubt anyone will be impressed by what my job title was or whether I earned more than my husband.

I know I will sit there and think about the immense joy that my son has brought me during the last three months. I am sure I will look forward to his visits and hearing about his adventures in the world.

I also wonder whether the vast upheaval that a baby brings is easier when you are younger. My life has been chaotic and sleep deprived since I graduated a few years back. Money has always been tight; I know no other way of living.

But really I just wanted to say to the journalist, look at your son, your husband, your beautiful home, read the things you write and enjoy them now. That's really all there is.

I've read the article, have to say I think it's realistic, even if you do share the childcare (and we do) then having and caring for a child is the most draining experience of my life. I don't think the journalist sounds like she has post natal depression, she just doesn't really focus on the positive aspects of motherhood which I think is fair enough as there's plenty of advertising around to do that. I work part time now and I love going to work, it feels like time off, to the extent that when I'm on 'holiday' I look forward to going back to work in order to have a coffee by myself. And my work is stressful, demanding and people-facing. Someone said to me when my son was 6 weeks old that to be a mother was to be 'infinitely interruptable' and I think that's the bit that makes it so hard. You might be able to take a placid 4 month old to the V&A but if I take my 2.9 year old son he will complain bitterly and prevent me from looking at anything, I know, I've tried it.

I am delighted to be a mother and wouldn't have missed out, but there have been huge losses and I didn't appreciate them before I had my son. I was also worried about losing my career focus and I have. It's not that I can't arrange childcare in order to travel or go to conferences, it's that I know my son would miss me terribly and I would miss him, so I don't do it. That's the bit I didn't appreciate, that it wasn't just a question of arranging things and the child would co-operate!

Ruth, have you not read all the thread? I think you are missing the point enormously, by miles. It has been civil and constructive, and it has asked people to explain the good things about being parents, which by and large, they have.

It certainly makes a refreshing change from
"Fat people don't deserve benefits"
"You are a cunt"
"Skinny people have no fun and are not real women"
"AIBU to tell my MIL that she is a PITA"
which is standard fare in this part of MN.

Just because you personally feel you disagree with something and it doesn't represent your experience and you are a bit put out by someone's opinion, doesn't make it inflammatory. Luckily most other posters realised this. Insinuating that until someone has children of their own, even though they have been trying their best for months or years, they are unable to hold a valid opinion could on the other hand ben seen as inflammatory.

hi Aries,
I have read the thread and contributed to it. I agree that it has been civil and constructive and also fascinating to hear a range of experiences.

The reason why I commented that the OP was inflammatory was that if someone had called me a 'moaning bint' or said that they were tempted to slap me for voicing my concerns when I was struggling with the early days of motherhood I would have found it upsetting.

As I said in my post, I don't generally believe that people need to have experienced something to comment on it. I comment on all kinds of things that I haven't experienced. And I don't believe that motherhood should be any exception. However, if you are calling someone a 'moaning bint' for not taking their baby to the V&A, I do feel that direct experience of what it is like to have a young and difficult baby would be relevant before adopting that kind of tone. The reason why I know this? Because before I had a baby I also used a similar tone to talk about mothers who I saw as falling short and 'knew' that I would be different. I wasn't. I was (and frequently still am) a milk encrusted, unwashed, insecure, isolated, tearful mess, desperately trying to calm down a constantly crying baby. I didn't have PND and I also love my daughter in a way that I never thought possible before I had her.

P.S Bloofer - I can bet you anything that motherhood won't be infinitely more miserable than you have imagined. It will be infinitely more wonderful with rather a lot of a few completely rubbish moments. I too analysed it to death before dd1 - my biggest regret is not having just bloody got on with it, leaving time for a couple more.

Hi Ruth, I agree with your point and especially with the feelings you had pre-motherhood - I was similar! Never understood why my friends who had children were so difficult to see without their kids, or why they insisted on being around for bedtime - now I'm just the same.
I find that most women my age who haven't had children still have these attitudes - I am off on m/l in 8 weeks and several women have asked me repeatedly if I am looking forwards to the 'time off', despite my saying several times it will be harder work than being at work, they don't believe me.

I also find the tendency to label people who are honest about the negative aspects of motherhood as having PND really disturbing - reminds me of the 1950s when women who weren't happy at home with their children were pathologised and sometimes even lobotomised. Why is it okay for a dad to say he's 'not really into babies' but if a mum says that she must have PND? I have several friends whose partners have said they find children more interesting once they start talking - well so do I, but that doesn't let me off the hook in terms of childcare!

OP I felt very similar to you before having a baby, concerned about becoming a mummy martyr and the loss of my intellectual and inner self. As a feminist I was concerned whether my relationship would stay equal. I am 34 and only had DD1 6 months ago, prior to which I agonised and over analysed every detail before taking the plunge.

Like you I hoped I?d be able to pop baby in sling and wonder round galleries. Sadly it doesn?t work like that. Of course you can go on outings but they can be more of a challenge than a treat. I?ll give you an example. When DD was 3 months old I took her to the Tate Modern. It took an hour to get there door to door. As soon as I arrived DD needed a feed. I found a quiet bench and breastfed. Inevitably having filled her tummy, she then filled her nappy so I went to find a baby changing room. Having changed her I realised I was ravenous. BF makes me feel permanently starving. Yes I could have packed a sandwich and a bottle of water; but just getting baby out the house with a packed bag in a window when she wasn?t feeding or howling was an achievement enough. So I went to the café and had a coffee and a snack. (Plus, having been up every 3 hours in the night I needed the caffeine).

The Gauguin exhibition was on but there was a really long queue for tickets and I was reluctant to queue for ages only to have to leave if DD had a meltdown. So I had a quick wonder round one of the galleries. Then it was time to feed DD again, because while it hadn?t quite been 2 hours since her last one, it was an hour to get home and I didn?t want hunger to strike on the Victoria line. Then I had to leave to avoid being on the tube with her in a sling for rush hour. Now I counted this outing as a success because D didn?t scream or cry and I got out the house and managed to see some art for all of 20 minutes. But the reality is that little babies have needs to be met ALL the time and you?ll be meeting them whether you are at home, in a museum or at a mother and toddler baby group.

Yes you can make an effort not to become a slave to those needs. But a crying baby is very, very hard to ignore. Seeing someone you love sobbing and wholly dependent on you to fix things is heart breaking. That?s why your cup of tea gets cold because they need rocking & your Christmas dinner sits untouched because they need feeding & you leave the wedding reception early because they need to sleep, now. You could choose the hot cup of the tea or to eat & let the baby wait for her meal or to stay out & disco dance while your baby howls in a pram in the corner of the dance floor. But I suspect once it comes down to it - no matter how strong your sense of identity and however much you value your own needs - you won?t find these options very palatable.

Two more reasons I?m not spending my maternity leave taking in London?s tourist attractions: (1) the sleep deprivation is just unspeakable. I haven?t slept through the night for nearly 7 months. So given a choice between getting on the tube to go and change nappies and breastfeed in a new location or having a nap, the nap wins. (2) I only get statutory maternity pay. We are (temporarily) skint. That is why the clichés about baby groups and pushing a pram around the park are true. They are free. And they are local, so when your baby has had enough, you can get home and get them to sleep. However , it?s not forever. I go back to work at the end of the summer. Being at home with a baby ? the days are long but the months fly by. She is needing me less and less already. In the meantime the exhibitions and lectures and nightclubs can wait.

Final note, as other mums have stated on this thread: it?s worth it. I am a jaded big-city dweller of 34. It takes a lot to move me. When I go to DD?s cot in the morning and she sees me, her face - no scrap that - her entire being lights up at the sight of me. I am transported. It is like Christmas morning, every day.