to find this article on motherhood inFURiating?

[BlooferLady]

Guardian writer in 'motherhood is hell' shock

Disclaimer: je suis TTCing. Erm, for a LONG time!

I didn't want children for years. YEARS! Was violently opposed to it And you know why? Because it looked like one long unending saga of drudgery, misery, isolation and loss of identity and self-respect (I have a large family and thus had the opportunity to observe its effects up close every 18 months or so).

We're TTCing now - hormones and a little wisdom took over, and I would very much like to be a mother. And yet here on MN and in the press I find my old terrors reinforced, and this article sums it all up. Everything I feared is true...

BUT IS IT? By the end of the article I wanted to slap the woman. She complains of her life dwindling to a miserable compressed world of perma-exhaustion, leaking breasts, nappy changes, never seeing her old friends, losing her sense of a professional life, only ever socialising with mothers and mother and toddler groups, bitterly envying women who still go to work, angry with her partner for not helping out round the house...

Someone PLEASE tell me it doesn't have to be like this. I wanted to yell at her, get out of the damn house and DO stuff you moaning bint! No-one MAKES you go to mother and toddler groups - put the creature in a sling and wander round the V&A! Let your partner do a bottle feed in the evening and go out for a boozy dinner! Do some work from home! MAKE your partner help out!

Surely there are people here on MN whose entire character isn't subsumed into the drudgery of being a mother? Who continue to be lively, interested in the larger world, engaged with their friends, interested in their career, happy in their relationships, still maintaining a sense of self and self-respect? For motherhood extends, informs, illuminates their life - doesn't effectively end it! Because if not, I don't want children. AIBU?!

Is OK Scrumptious - if there is one area of life in which people can point at me and howl "you don't know what the fuck you're talking about woman" this would be it!

I was going to say 'thanks' but your immortal line "your life has become a massive round of boring drudgery" has in fact depressed the tits off me. I shall now have to bake a cake. YOUR fault, madam: YOURS.

What Adela said. I never found that breastfeeding kept me chained to nappy changes and baths and food preparation and dusting and hoovering- in fact, quite the contrary: the more time I spent feeding, the more obvious it was that all those other jobs would have to be done by the only other available adult. And I didn't really get this primary caregiver thing either: if it is possible for a bottle feeding mum to feel like a caregiver even though she doesn't breastfeed, then I don't see why a dad who does all the other jobs around the baby shouldn't be able to feel the same.

And I did feel that a lot of crapness stopped feeling like crapness when it was shared. Even jobs that could be boring drudgery can actually be fun if you're doing them together.

One thing to remember imo is that it isn't the same all the time. There were some extremely hard bits (mainly related to my dcs having congenital health problems). If I think specifically about those times, then it's easy to imagine it was all drudgery. But when I look at my photos, another side of the story comes back to me: I did not spend all that early time glued to the feeding chair with a syringe and breastpump- I did that too, but that was not the sum total of dcs' babyhood. We had days out, we had friends round, we went visiting, we had lots of fun. And even the hard times ended up bringing us closer together.

Just one person's experience, of course. But as valid as any other.

No Bloo, I didn't write it but it's like that journalist put a scanner on my head and downloaded exactly what I think, feel and experience. To be honest when you have a little little baby at first you think "oh this isnt so hard", I remember happily bfing in a pub beer garden, trundling round museums and the like no problem and being convinced that the baby would fit around my lifestyle and sneering inwardly at other mums who would take hours to leave the house, spent their days submersed in baby focused activities etc.

But then like the journo said a few months in your life suddenly changes. It's not sudden but it does. Then everything you do, everywhere you go is focused upon making your life easier-and the only way to make it easier is by making your life revolve around the children. You do everything possible just to snatch 5mins time for yourself and often the only way to do that it by going to somewhere mind numbing and dreadful like a mother and todders group or a soft play. In both places you can have a cup of tea and maybe not be bothered for 15mins while the children play.

Nobody wants to go to these places, they are hell on earth but less hellish than trying to take children round the shops/art galleries. You do what you can to keep yourself sane.

I don't socialise now with women who don't have children. It's impossible. Before my first I read someone on here saying the same thing and I thought WTF!

Then just when I thought i'd got it sussed, second child came along and it stepped up again. Now I realise how easy I had it with only child.

Being a parent isn't stressful in my opinion, but it is physically and emotionally very demanding. I don't expect to feel like myself for many years yet. My options are seriously limited

There are positives though and I don't regret it. It's just a slog for the first 5 yrs

Ok, here's my day.

0645 awoken by nearly 8 mo old baby grabbing my hair and licking my nose (we co sleep and she is learning to kiss). Automatically annoyed at waking so early before mentally celebrating that it isn't 5 am.

Cue 20 mins of her chatting before I get up with her to let DH have a lie in...my turn tomorrow.

Cup of tea while cuddling on sofa playing with stacking cups.

Breakfast. Petits Filous up nose, in hair, on clothes...and that's just me.

Potter in kitchen.

Baby grizzling, into living room to rock and sing twinkle twinkle 20 times before sitting under sleeping baby to MN a little. (And post on this thread!)

0945 DH up, hand dd over while shower, dress etc. Normally do this with a grinning spectator (dd not DH) but nice to be solo.

Mil arrives.

Leave for swimming lessons, despite being tiny dd loves them. My turn to swim too.

Lunch. Being a lazy sod I'm 'baby led weaning' in other words dd sits in a highchair and plays with eats what we do.

Home, dd bow napping while I chill and DH gardens.

Lovely day in my book, motherhood isn't all bad! DH and I are intimately connected with each others' days and neither of us feel put upon. I breastfed and will continue to do so till she is ready to wean, I don't have saggy boobs or sit around chained to the sink feeling sorry for myself...I'm out and about having fun...most of the time.

Yes, there have been times that I have said to DH in the dark of the night "it's lucky she's so cute or else" type thing, but then the look of utter joy, excitement and love on her face when she sees me wipes that away. She just gets more amazing every day and I cane believe we made her.

See? Smug. No-one wants to hear that!

(Apologies for any typos etc, am on phone.)

Cake? hehe. There are positives. I think you have to look at it like running a marathon, it's painful tedious and exhausting but worth it in the end. I wouldn't lie to you, i'm an anonymous person on the internet and if I thought it was all shite and I regretted it i'd say so and damn what anyone else here thought. It IS worth it, promise

And yes, tomorrow might be more drudge like...washing nappies (from 'power suits' to lentil weaving in 1 yr...who'da think...certainly not me), tidying etc, but it will also involve a long dog walk if not raining, making soup, eating roast (yes, food is important to me!) etc. It's all a balance.

I loved breastfeeding, chilling on the settee with coffee, book, remote control, glass of water, baby sleeping on my lap/cot next to me. I felt I could justify being lazy all day.

Also later, I couldn't really understand people choosing to get up in the night making up bottles, when I just pulled baby over from the cot and fed her without really waking myself. When out and about there was no warming or mixing or extra bag etc. but each to their own.

Thanks -Op I cant wait for tonights episodes ! Think I might keep this name

• I changed it for The Killing thread .

Maybe we all focus on different parts of this article- I noticed the cover and focussed on the fact it was about equality.

Sorry to jump on the fact you said helping but it grates on me that looking after ones own child is called helping .

Ninky that was LOVELY. And you see, I wonder if some of this is a question of perception. A different person could experience precisely your day but would not enjoy it, or describe it to others as enjoyable. I suppose what i am doing is classing all mothers of little ones as miserable (Joke, all right?! JOKE! Not all, etc. etc. etc.) when actually, people who are perhaps inclined to a bit glass-half-empty before children will be the same after. Which is nice - I'm lazy and pretentious now and can look forward to being a lazy and pretentious mother (again, for the sake of clarity, JOKING).

Victoria the running a marathon image is very helpful. And so's your honesty and everyfink :)

(As I type I am getting banana cake mixture on the keys....)

Breastfeeding- can give you freedom I found if you just go with it...ok so I'm a mum who is very lazy. I just sat and lazed about and fed them listening to the radio, co-slept...so might seem very constricting at first glance. In actual fact both babies seemed to nurse loads in the evenings and through the night and when you get used to it you can sleep too, it is fab just sends you to sleep...so after the first few weeks found that it was really easy in the day just pottering around lazing about again shopping art galleries with the sling...simple things such as the time of year, place you live, people around in the day, make such a difference. I just wanted to mention it as in our house I didn't feel resentful just respected, feeding was/is an important part of mothering only i could do, and oops it just takes up so much time dp had to cook/clean/etc aha!

If you can be creative and see the best in what you are doing...don't do as I did to start and feed in horrible changing rooms in Mothercare that stick of nappies and double as the changing room. Also if you can change your outlook so for example you feel you have not had much time alone with dp and baby is feeding loads in the evening so haven't been out, could you possibly arrange and friend or relative to take them off for an early walk one weekend morning so you can stay in bed and have some time alone? It may not suit everyone, but I found that just going with the flow like that made it easy,. Mind you i had a big age gap between the two so one was off at preschool before the other came along. That definitely helped.

You don't need to limit yourself to mums for company too. I joined a community allotment group which consists of students, retired people, mums, randoms, came hope with lovely organic veg we had helped with, go every week. I also don't really understand why people complain about meeting mums who have nothing in common except babies. I like that, it is interesting to talk to people you'd not normally meet through work etc. Sometimes they can go on a bit about babies but if you can get onto other things it an be interesting.

Think you should go for it OP, you sound very grounded. Don't be too put off by your relatives experience. Have you got friends who have had a baby to talk to too?

'stink of nappies'

I love being a mum and my kids give me endless pleasure, I constantly talk about child related issues to other people with kids. But at the same time, I don't feel I got the balance just right, I do need something else. Every now and then I get quite down and I am grateful when DP takes the kids out for the day - but what do I do, spend hours on here! Discussing kids stuff!

Couldn't agree more, DanishDetectiveSweater - am surprised at myself for having used those terms. It's like when a woman goes out and her pals say, "Oh your husband is babysitting, how nice!" NO! NO HE'S NOT! IT'S HIS BLOODY CHILD YOU TWIT!"

gabid that does sound appealing. Again - perception, right?! Some women hate it; some don't. Some feel constrained by it; some don't. Chacon a son gout and so on.

Thanks Orange :)

And yes: I have friends - and indeed recent family members - with new babies. Some of them seem deeply unhappy, some blissfully content. Some (like one of my sisters) have contrived to develop new and exciting careers whilst producing new offspring roughly every other year. But I suppose I am being a little like someone who has a headache and every day sees headlines about brain tumours : I'm only really hearing the things that reinforce my worries and fears. All the positive stuff here is great, and I hope people have enjoyed having a good excuse to talk about it without fearing accusations of smuggery!

Hehe at DanishDetectiveSweater ! Who do you think dunnit? Come over to the Killing Thread !

One of the best things my DH and I ever did when they were little was to take turns at 'time off' - so mine was Sunday afternoons when he would go out to the park etc for about 3 hours and I could go to bed ,have a soak etc
Just knowing that I would have that time sort of relieved the pressure iyswim ?

He would go and plant seeds and dig his garden !

Well I'm only 5 weeks in, but so far so good. I do not agree that if you are ebf you have to do everything. I ebf. My husband changes all the nappies when he's here. Of his own free will. I have cooked one meal since she arrived. I have not touched the Hoover. He has done all that. And he only had 2 weeks paternity leave. Yes I do the nightime stuff. I don't see the point of him waking up if he can't feed her. But it's not that hard to pick a baby up from the basket beside me, whack her on the boob and catch up on mumsnet on my phone or read my Kindle.

It gets easier every day. I had some very dark days in the beginning and no doubt many more to come. But I have not had a single day where I haven't experienced a moment of pure joy with her. And I don't think I could say that about my life before.

I think some of the disappointment with motherhood is down to the total devaluing of mothering. We have days when I don't manage to leave the house because all she wants to do is feed. I might say I've done nothing all day. But that's not true. There's a book called What Mothers Do Even When it Looks Like Nothing At All which talks about this lack of language to describe what a mother/primary caregiver does all day, and the impact this has on how we feel about it. Very interesting book.

Most women (and men) iun their right minds don't want to be housewives. I've really really enjoyed being a mother over 26 yerrs and 5 chidlren and worked full time and earned a lot. Life is huge fun. It's just if you are silly enough to become in effect a servant (housewife) that you'll hate it.

My advice to all is pick brilliant careers and work full time and have large families. Therein lies the route to true happiness.

I also have to say, on the shittest of shit days I have never thought "god
I wish I was at work". On a beach in the Maldives, skiing in the Alps, fast asleep in a hotel, yes yes yes. But not work. This lark is much better than my job.

I find this thread really irritating. How can anyone tell you whether you'll find motherhood fun and positive? It's such a personal experience. You either want to find out or you don't

FairIsleCardie I have to avoid the Killing thread like the plague - I only saw the first 3 or 4 episodes and am waiting for it to come out on DVD! If I find out whodunnit before then I will actually shave my head, climb a tower and start picking off strangers.

Muse I think you are right - is there a possibility that some mothers internalise the devaluation of motherhood and therefore feel discontent as a sort of reflection of what they think everyone else is thinking? That book sounds a good read....

Xenia I like the cut of your jib .

Hi again agree with Sarah about giving each other time off. Also great if you have friends/rels you have known 'before' and have babies..you can help each other especially as they grow by minding both so one can have a break, slo you or they can mind 'them' so the others can have couple time. It is small things like that that really make a difference!

Just a thought why don't you ask to 'borrow' a friends baby (maybe one of the unhappy friends) take it for a walk...this would give your pal a break with the idea that she is helping you...so no guilt!

You sould do the morning thing and take it for breakfast somewhere easy like an open air cafe of to the park with a blanket.

toomany I ain't looking for anyone to tell me motherhood will be fun or positive for me, what with the marked absence of majickal crystal balls in the vicinity . I was just challenging, in my own cack-handed way, what I perceived to be an epidemic of unhappy motherhood. And I can see how the thread's irritating to some but there's been some stuff that's helpful to me and I hope to others: debate about why motherhood can feel like drudgery, and whether that's simply a side effect of the job or something to do with the value society places on mothers; and some really hearteningly un-smug happy women keen to talk about how great it can all be.

Sorry to hijack thread with talk of The Killing- I spent a week frantically catching up on iplayer as I only got into it a few weeks ago .One day I watched four episodes -obsessed? moi ?

Oooooo Orange .... an interesting and yet terrifying idea....

Sarah I would never do that. No. Not with The Shield. Or Sons of Anarchy. Or 24. Nope. Nor am I looking forward to a solid 2 hours of Trevor Eve shouting at people this evening