to start a baby sing and sign class without any formal training or qualifications?

[CourseyoucanMalcolm]

I did various singing and signing classes with both my two so am quite familiar with how it works, and know lots and lots of signs.

Now I am stuck thousands of miles from UK with no way of doing a training course, and nothing to do with my mornings.

I was thinking of setting up a little sing and baby signing group. I would plan my classes and make sure I knew all the signs connected to the topic in advance. And I would get hold of a big book to look up anything I didn't know.

I wouldn't be offering Makaton or BSL or ASL classes, just a little singsong and a few signs so your baby could communicate.

Do you think that would be okay?

People seem to be relishing coming up with spurious obstacles to scare the OP off from starting this enterprise.

Of course she should:

Do a risk assessment (aka: walk around the rooms they will use and think about any risks and mitigate them - remove ornaments, put up stair gates etc...think about how to handle hot drinks)

Declare the income if it pushes her over the tax free allowance.

But the rest is not necessary.

CRB - nope
Tell your home insurers - that you are having some people round?
Get liability insurance - up to you of course, but no more necessary than if you invited people into your house for a party.
Get qualified - to sing some songs and teach some basic signs.

As for SGM's 'I'd take you to small claims court' - that seems to be scaremongering. How do you see that conversation going?

I hope you enjoyed the session?
Yes it was great, where did you learn how to do that?
I just picked it up with my own children.
Oh I thought you were qualified. I don't think I'll come again, I'd like my £3 back.
ok....

My heart sinks to think that the OP, and others may be put off from taking initiative and providing a service that people want, because they are made to think that they need to fulfill loads of beureucratic requirements before they even start.

My heart sinks to think that the OP, and others may be put off from taking initiative and providing a service that people want, because they are made to think that they need to fulfill loads of beureucratic requirements before they even start

That's because usually there IS loads of beureucratic requirements!

People can't even look after each other's kids on a regular basis now ( remember the 2 policewomen, was it last year?) without being a qualified childminder. I agree, it IS nonsense but to point out pit falls on a AIBU thread is realistic - surely that's why the OP posted?

Valiimredhead - but people have been pointing out 'pitfalls' here that don't exist - like saying the OP would have to be CRB checked, or needs to tell the authorities.

She is not offering childcare, so why bring those regulations up at all.

A lot of times over cautious interpretation of health and safety guidelines, is just that, people being overcautious. It is always safer not to do something than to just think through the risks and deal with them in a sensible manner.

Well it would depend how it was being done and through which insurer whether a CRB would be needed, although in her first post she does say she's not in the UK!

SGM the parents will be there with their children.

OP Ignore the nasty comments it is a lovely idea.
I know of someone locally who does this in her own home. Everyone knows she has no official qualifications yet it is the one class that has a very long waiting list.

People go for the social side aswell as learning signs so to say I could just learn it from a book is missing the point .

I think if you were doing this free as a voluntary group it would be fine. I dont think charging for a singing and signing class when not qualified is right to be honest, especially if running from your own home.

blimey she's talking about charging a quid a session to cover cost of refreshments
it's hardly going to catapult her into a new tax bracket is it?

Yanbu, As long as you call it a group not a class. And sort out insurances.

Are there any music schools near you that you could attach to?

I ask because I teach at a local music school. I grew up doing loads of music and have sung with one of the world's best big choirs but I have no formal qualifications. A few years ago my mum started teaching basic music classes at the Saturday music school (she used to be a primary school music teacher). The person teaching with her left and I interviewed and got the job.

Three years later I'm still doing it and I LOVE it!

I've been on a couple of weekend courses to get some ideas and am CRB checked but that's it. My mum left to move to France so my younger sister now teaches with me, again, she knows a lot about music but has no formal qualifications.

Look into things like Kodaly courses and seriously think about it OP. There are also quite a few franchises available. You don't need qualifications to launch most of them and, in my experience, what children respond to is enthusiasm.

Music with small children is hugely rewarding, if you have passion and a talent for it go for it.

Really folks I think you are overcomplicating this!

Of course her household insurance is not going to cover her in case of liabilities. Household insurance is house and contents insurance(fire and theft etc...) it is not liability insurance in case your visitors sue you.

Does she need liability insurance for this? Well that's completely up to her. But having a childs birthday party or an NCT coffee morning at your home is riskier than what she is doing and most people don't bother getting themselves indemnified against those risks.

Public liability insurance is not a legal requirement if you run signing, singing or other classes for children, at least not the UK (not sure where OP is). You would be foolish not to have it, in case of injury, but you can classes without it. As Himalaya has said is it up to the OP to decide. TBH, after running music classes for pre-schoolers for the last 10 years, I've yet to have an instance where there would be any likelihood for a claim but better safe than sorry.

As the OP is not the UK CRB checks are irrelevant and in any event aren't a requirement if you run classes with the parents present.

Some baby signing companies in the UK require tutors to have at least BSL level 1, some don't. Some use standard signs, some use Makaton, some make up their own. Most people coming to baby signing classes don't care one way or the other, they just want a way to communicate with their children in a pre-verbal stage.

OP, if you want to do it, then do make sure you know your stuff and have good resources to hand. Best of luck.

Huge thanks to everyone who has posted on this thread. This has been so useful.

Sorry I got a bit upset in the middle. Was being silly. Am made of sterner stuff today.

I am going to investigate insurance. It is a good point. I have a feeling that it won't be an issue - we are very back of beyond here and anyone who has the time and the inclination to fanny about with baby singing groups Has their own medical insurance. I will be clear that it is a mum and baby group.

I think I am going to do it. I shall call it a group, not a class.

I am going to include baby signing, but I shall be clear that I am not a teacher and this is not a signing course.

I am going to be back for advice on how to word it right, and what to call it.

I have taken on board all the criticisms. I really do think that where I am there is a call for this. It is such a small expat community that everyone will know the score.

I really REALLY appreciate the reassurances and enthusiasm from some people. I am really a bit low and struggling to settle in to a new place. It is hard. And having a project will make all the difference. I think I can do this - have got lots of enthusiasm and ideas, and love singing.

Got to go and scrape playdoh off the carpet now but will return and read the thread through again later this morning.

Yeah go for it- lots of people do these groups here in the US- just music groups and people happily pay 4-7 quid a time.

Great project and it will really offer a great service and help you meet some lovely mums- i have met the most lovely people going to these kind of groups.

Have some bubble time too as the kids love that too.

I went to a franchise class with someone who was presumably "trained and qualified". Unfortunately she had no people skills whatsoever , she clearly followed a strict formula throughout and her classes were far and away THE most boring thing I have ever done with any of my three children. If you think you can run a group where people will enjoy coming and they might learn a bit about baby signing and you don't pretend to be something you aren't I really can't see anything wrong with it. I am not talking about teaching proper sign language but really, baby signing is not rocket science.

I took DS to sing and sign classes. The teacher does not have formal qualifications - she's done the training attached to the franchise.

I'm not stupid - I know that it wasn't a full blown makaton or official BSL class. The teacher wasn't deaf, there were no deaf children there and the teacher did not have any deaf children. The signs didn't match the official BSL signs.

Glad to see you back OP.

Making it into a group sounds perfect. Should be fun for you and other mums.

Have fun with the Playdoh!

There do not need formal sign language qualifications to teach babies how to communicate. All you are doing is taking a sign and giving it meaning so that the baby not only understands the sign but also can imitate it in order to communicate with its parent or caregiver.

Even if you go to one of the big franchise companies they will tell you although they may use British Sign Language as a basis they adapt the signs so that babies can perform them with their little hands. They will not have qualifications in British Sign Language though.

If you held one finger up and constantly told a baby that it meant milk in the end the baby will unserstand that one finger up meant milk!! (before you go jumping in I know it doesnt mean that lol) You could make up a whole new language at the end of the day, someone somewhere had to make up all the other signs out there.

Parents will be responsible for their own children so this limits your risk however you will need to take out professional indemnity insurance.

It is Public Liability Insurance you need sorry.