To be Gobsmacked that someone doesn't know who Nelson Mandela is?

[Skeptical]

A very religious American lady was telling me all about how she has chosen to homeschool her children because she doesn't want them taught evolution. I was shocked enough by this, but then the conversation turned to history and what we are taught in English scools. I described how a big part of my GCSE's was about South African history and especially Nelson Mandela. Her response was "yes he was a great example of Englishness, oh you guys have done so much good in Africa"

I was completely shocked. I can't believe that someone doesn't know who he is and his history! It's even more alarming because this woman is homeschooling not only her own children but several others as well.

AIBU to think people who homeschool their children should do some sort of test to actually prove they know what they are on about?

excuse my spelling and grammar in some places

And yes a minority of British schools may teach this subject in more depth, but for the most part I have seen no evidence of it.

I bet the woman in question could name at least 5 major players in the American Civil Rights movement of whom we have never heard.

LDNmummy, I have not been to school in Britain at all and my statement was a pure guess based on the fact that OP thought it was shocking someone didn't exactly who MN was.

If I put it like this, maybe the papers in America weren't covering the story as much as they did in the UK?

I was not tought a single thing about South Africa at school, more than to be able to point it out on a map and to name the capital. I'm sure the papers covered it at the time of his realease but I was 7 and cannot remember it.

If you asked me who Nelson Mandela is I would answer "A nobel prize winner from South Africa who has wrongfully been in prison for a long time due to something to do with apartheid."

And I'm European.

I wouldn't call myself stupid based on this.

She puts extra salt on her kids food cos she heard somewhere that it is good for them!

Some dancers I knew used to increase their salt intake to prevent cramp. Maybe that's what she's heard too.

QwertyQueen, I just reread your post. You say she puts it on the kids food. It would only make sense if she was increasing it on the tennis player. She's got the wrong end of the stick.

grovel"I bet the woman in question could name at least 5 major players in the American Civil Rights movement of whom we have never heard."
Somehow, if she does not her kids to learn about evolution, I do not think she is focusing on civil rights movement either. But then I am judging her.

...does not WANT her kids...

just out interest anyone on here attend the 1988 "free Mandela" concert at wembley?
i was there and biggest memory was it was bloody cold
Bryan Adams was best

No I wouldn't call you stupid either, my point was that these issues occur because history and even current events are taught usually from an Eurocentric viewpoint or hardly taught at all. I'm 24, don't know how old I would have been at the time, all I know is that I have never seen it emphasised in schools though Nelson Mandela's influence on a global scale was huge.

I think that is sad, I think the American educational system is even narrower in what is taught and that is even sadder.

But IMHO, American's are largely conditioned do be less well informed than most other people for various reasons, including the shocking nature of their media. Hence my reference to Fox News.

I thought everyone knew Nelson Mandela was the guy on top of Nelson's column. Hasn't she ever BEEN to London...?

I think I was 9 when Mandela was freed LDNM ans I'm 30. I don't remember it either nor have I ever been taught any of that part of history at school.
Everything I do know (a small amount) has beeen through curiosity since. Pretty much the same level has HB.

I'm not usually one to support Americans, and this woman definitely does not sound like my cup of tea. But I agree that it is all about relevance. I am suprised she didn't know about Nelson Mandela, but South Africa - thanks to our colonial links - is a lot more relevant in this country than in the US. Conversely, the Americans are much more clued up on central and south American politics, as well as on places like Haiti. I suspect there are leaders of Central American countries that many more Americans than Brits will have heard of.

On the other hand I am still very suprised that there is no testing of standards for home educators.

LDNmummy I think it is a tad unfair to climb a your high horse and criticize European and/or US educational system (history curriculum in particular) for not knowing about other cultures if you are a product of a different cultural background yourself.

Like it or not (fairly or unfairly) "western" civilization and that is European first and US later was on the forefront of major historical events from middle ages to "now". There are some objective reasons for that, amongst many "history is written by the victors" (it is just of fact of life).

In Europe the skew will be to European history, in the US - american, African students will be more encouraged/interested in their native continent, Russians will be studying all things russian apart from "World" history. It is just human nature to be more interested in what your own people have contributed to the world.

Thinking that because you "know" more facts about other cultures it makes you somehow "superior" to others is wrong. Having a genuine curiosity to go out and seek the truth, research, broaden your horizons and have the means to do it (taught at school) is what I think should be encouraged. Education system in Europe and US are just as good as any other if not better in doing so (be it South America or China).

OP it's shocking how many people don't know so many things (iyswim!). For example, my parents overheard some teenagers (about 16yo) talking about poppies - 2 of the 3 didn't have a clue why we wear them.

LDNmummy "one your "know" more facts about other cultures it makes one you somehow "superior""

sorry, I did not mean to point finger, just a general observation... that reads more like intended

I would have expected almost everyone in the world over a certain age to have heard of Nelson Mandela.

I was still living in Japan when he was freed and it was certainly all over the news there. As was the Tiananmen square massacre and the fall of the Berlin wall. I would expect anyone over the age of 12 at the time (so born in 1977/1978 or before) to know of all these three events.

So, OP, I can understand your surprise and disquiet.

Even for those born later, given how often he is in the news around things like the Football World Cup and so on, it seems surprising to not have heard of him.

He has certainly been talked about at my children's school, during Black History Month. Whether or not they have retained his name, I don't know, but they are only young.

That said, I was the only of my many colleagues on an Atlanta work trip who chose to visit Martin Luther King Jr's grave, which surprised me as I thought more people would be interested in that. So maybe I am naive about people's world interest.

americans are very insular in that they believe that the USA is the world - few have any idea about stuff overseas - not having a go, just saying that's how it is.

When I put UK on something in america, they thought that was another State???

General education isnt very good in America ime

Mind you, saying that, I am continually astonished that people who spend so many hours per day on the internet in this country are so ignorant of current affairs and general information and just day to day news. Thats just pure laziness and ignorance

"African students will be more encouraged/interested in their native continent"

Not at all, I have been educated in this country from the age of four, my cousins who have been educated in America, Various African countries and some Arabic states learn about many foreign cultures, their history and its influence in shaping the world. It is mostly in places like America and Europe that this is not the case. Yes history is written by the victors, but saying it is a fact of life is rediculous. Are we not progressive as a species? Should we not have learnt by now that history of all kinds is valuable and start to incorporate a broader view of history and world into the curriculum here? Or should we just keep going "oh well we are the victors so no need to learn about other countries and their histories". How utterly ignorant an attitude that would be when we live in a world of mass communication and free media.

"Thinking that because you "know" more facts about other cultures it makes you somehow "superior" to others is wrong."

I don't think this at all as I said to one poster above. Not knowing doesn't make you stupid, it is a lack of willingness to learn. Which unfortunately, because of the "we are the victors" attitude you pointed out, has been a quality lacking in countries like Britain for many generations. And it is not particularly an individuals fault if they were not taught something to begin with, so it is the educational system which is lacking, not the persons intelect.

"Having a genuine curiosity to go out and seek the truth, research, broaden your horizons and have the means to do it (taught at school) is what I think should be encouraged."

I agree, it is a fundamental skill and should be encouraged. But how will you have a curiosity to learn about something if you are never exposed to it and have no knowledge of it or its existence? Would it not also be better to educate generally? A skill is useless without anything to apply it to.

"Education system in Europe and US are just as good as any other if not better in doing so (be it South America or China)."

When literally half of a nations school leavers do not have adequate skills in basic reading, writing (of their native language) and mathematics, I doubt you can accurately make that claim. I say this because unlike other states where there is not freely available education, there is free education for all in Britain and it is compulsory, making this a terrible fact in my eyes.

"When literally half of a nations school leavers do not have adequate skills in basic reading, writing (of their native language) and mathematics, I doubt you can accurately make that claim. I say this because unlike other states where there is not freely available education, there is free education for all in Britain and it is compulsory, making this a terrible fact in my eyes."

I am not sure about the exact statistics, but it is shocking as you say. HOWEVER, is it all the fault of exclusively of education system? There were studies conducted very recently in the degree to which various institutions influence school children from early age to the time the leave the secondary school (I do not have the source, will be grateful if someone in the know points it out). "School" as institution came 5th. The first was "the family", then "peer groups", then (i do not remember the order) media, including internet. School was far far behind.

So, why we are placing SO much blame for how our youngsters turn out on school?

"Or should we just keep going "oh well we are the victors so no need to learn about other countries and their histories". How utterly ignorant an attitude that would be when we live in a world of mass communication and free media."

Absolutely not and i agree with you. However, as you rightly pointed out but somehow did not expand on it, we live in the world where the information is available at the tip of the fingers and one just needs to click to find a lot of material to research. There are fantastic programmes out their ("Civilization: is the West history?" on Channel 4 is the current one). Why do we switch instead (as a nation) to watch X Factor instead??

(sorry, responding in chunks because i am running around a bit)

Re skills vs education: " I agree, it is a fundamental skill and should be encouraged. But how will you have a curiosity to learn about something if you are never exposed to it and have no knowledge of it or its existence? Would it not also be better to educate generally? A skill is useless without anything to apply it to."

I am a bit upset how much history british children are learning vs how much I have learned as a student from another european country, but and this is big "but", I was also very encouraged (observing my stepchildren, pure product of british system) how they deal with new information/direction once they are facing it. They are happy "to have a go" as scholars at this problem, research it and they can make a pretty good effort. I do not agree that they should be spoon fed with info and this is exclusively a school responsibility. We are lucky, we are close to London, so we went to a lot of exhibition and events and took full advantage of for example British Museum study days, but there are other, less taxing (travel wise) ways to learn.

I think british system is very good. I am less encouraged about american state system (but it is very underfunded vis-a-vis british state system, so there are reasons why it is so behind), more so by western european system, but again i think western education as a whole (US universities in particular) are in the top of the world, so they are doing something right.

"Thinking that because you "know" more facts about other cultures it makes you somehow "superior" to others is wrong."

I corrected myself LNMummy, it was not directed at you as such. It should read "Thinking that because one you "knows" more facts about other cultures it makes one you somehow "superior" to others is wrong."

It is a general attitude in our society it may be right on the workplace but it is wrong in day-to-day interaction.

Sorry OP, not only i have overwhelmed this thread, I have also hijacked the topic.

I went to school on the African continent (to be more precise, South Africa), and took history to Matric (or would have if I hadn't left the country).

this is what we learnt:

• South African history from the time of Jan van Riebeck (can't remember how to spell his name )
• the First and Second Anglo Boer wars
• the Voortrekkers (about a trillion times) and how different areas of South Africa were "discovered"

then there was a change in government

• history about the different tribes (e.g. Khoi San) and their movements and how they and the Europeans affected each other
• the Zulu kingdom and their interaction with the different tribes (mfecane and dfecane - when the zulus took over various bits, killed off vast quantities of other tribes and pushed others into what is now zimbabwe and zambia. This bit of south african history was conveniently forgotten by the Apartheid museum who stated that until the Europeans arrived, all the tribes loved each other and lived in harmony. My arse)
• incidentally some stuff about zimbabwe and zambia
• a buttload of European history - Industrial Revolution, French Revolution, Russian Revolution, WW1, WW2

apart from a very minor foray into Zimbabwe and Zambia, we didn't learn any other African history - I know a lot more of European history than African history

Yes South Africa has its own complicated history that makes it different to Africa on the whole. I know many Africans who think of South Africa as somehow detached from the rest of Africa because of its history. Sad but true. This kind of singular education was hugely resulting from the Aparthied regime as far as I know.

And please correct me if I am wrong Absdu, I know about SA but doubtfully as much as you who was educated and lived there.