to consider becoming a medical student mum?

[ForShizzle]

I have name changed but I'm a regular.

I am gearing up to apply to medical school in the next UCAS cycle - sitting chemistry A level, preparing for entrance exams and getting work experience. I'm applying to 4 and 5 year courses, it is really competitive and I'm 30 now so I imagine it will take me a few attempts before they let me in.

I've got 2 DCs, 5 years and 2 years at the moment. If I get accepted on the first attempt I will start medical school when my youngest starts school. The fact that I didn't consider a medical career after school is a big regret of mine, but the kids come first. I am worried that I will be an absent parent, and that they will be affected by having me around much less. After the initial intense slog of medical school, it gets worse in the foundation years and then there is more training to specialise in a particular field. I can't know how this will affect them until I do it, but I'm worried that I'm doing something that is not in their interest at all.

I suppose I am looking for advice from mum's who've studied or retrained? How did it pan out?

Thanks

I changed it a bit and it posted both versions... weird!

Well there is no getting away from the fact that when you have completed medical school the hard work begins in that you will have to work impossible hours with little consistency. This is not family friendly.

Its a big sacrifice. Can you stomach that?

Got no experience of this but think you've got to go for it or you'll regret it forever. My Mum retrained at college when I was 10/11 (not the same thing as medicine obv) and I was incredibly proud of her. Still am. Watching her studying made instilled in me a life-long love of learning and a determination to achieve my own goals.

She got a lot of support from my Dad (no more than any bloke should do in terms of sharing the general load but it was the 1970s so he was considered a trail-blazer!).

Do you have RL support to help you achieve this?

I am a doc. I did it by the conventional route - uni at 18 - but I am now working as a hospitla doctor and juggling 2 children. Thankfully I have been able to train part time (3 days a week) since coming back from my first lot of maternity leave so know something of the juggling work and kids.

I think you will find it hard work but equally you sound very committed as you are working hard to do all the things that will make your application stand out. I can't really help about how your kids will cope with this - hopefully someone will come along who has been there like you and will be able to help. As far as the future goes after medical school there are lots of specialities that are more family friendly or you may consider part time training in order to blanace your work and family a bit. All of this is possible.

Good luck to you.

At risk of outing myself I will tell you about my family...

My DH is a doctor, we got together when he was 3rd year medical student. I remember how hard he worked, but the long tough hours panned out and now he is a happy contented doc.

I am currently doing a 3 year degree for training to be a Social Worker. I had DS during 2nd year, took a year out to nurse him and have now returned. It is hard juggling family and work balance, I won't lie, but looking long-term I have hopes that it will pan out well for all of us as a family.

I am wishing you all the best.

Hi I'm a hospital doc too. Also did the conventional route. I am currently on maternity for DC1. I have to say I absolutely love my job and feel that the sacrifices are worth it.

My mom (not a medic) worked from when I was 6/52 as did my dad. They more than made up for it by spending good quality time with us - I'm glad (as I'm sure that your dc will be) that they worked hard, loved what they did and insttilled in us a sense of pride and ambition.

I would say go for it if you're desperate to do it.

But just so you know. I started straight after my last degree because I thought it would be something I would enjoy (and I was heavily talked into it by medic friends). I didn't enjoy it as much as I thought (in fact I hated it, but that was partly due to uncontrolled OCD). After 2 years (actually after the 3rd year, I did the 4 year course) I took a year out to reassess. I then had a baby, and I'm now on my 2nd year out. Knowing in advance how much work it will involve I'm almost certainly not going to go back. I don't want to miss that much time with my DS for something that I'm not passionate about. He won't be in school, so I'd have to find a lot of childcare etc.

In terms of the hours. The first two years are like a normal degree: 9-5 monday to friday. One you reach the clinical years the hours are much longer. If you have to be in the hospital for rounds these can start at 7am. Depending on what's happening on that day you may not leave 'til 7 or 8pm. That might happen 2/3 times a week. In the final year you are often expected to be on call, so overnight and at weekends.

Once you're working you'll have to do nights and weekends, as well as holidays e.g. Christmas day. So there may be some weeks where you barely see them. That's the first two years. Depending on what you choose to do after that it may settle down a lot.

So that's the bad side with children.

If however it's really what you want to do and you love it then it's immensely rewarding. And if you are happy doing it then you'll be happy at home too. Plus your children will be super proud of Dr. Mummy. There are plenty of people doing it with children and they love it. I think that's the most important thing.

I thought I would love it, but sadly I just don't. So for me it doesn't seem worth it :( I really regret that.

If it's what you want to do then go for it. Much better to do that than to regret never trying! Good luck with it all!

30 is not too old- people train at 40 I hear and if it is what you really want,but there will be a price to pay.

Just a little anecdote- my friend had a young doc visit her son at home- the woman had 2 kids at home and she expressed her regret that she had worked full time through their young years when my friend said she was a sahm. My friend said she looked really sad and said you can't get the time back.

But sounds like both your kids will be at school so maybe it will be easier somehow. I guess it will be a decade of being pretty preoccupied with becoming a doctor and fitting mumhood around it.

It can be done- if you want it enough to make the sacrifices that will be demanded of you.

Good Luck to you.

Flingonthevaliant I have never met a medical student dedicated enough to work 12 hour days 2-3 days a week!

My mum always discouraged me from doing something similar as her own mother did this (did her nurses training in the 60's/70's after having 4 kids!) and although my gran ended up in a fab career, my mum (being the youngest of the 4) says it was very very difficult and she missed her mum at big things like christmas and birthdays and general milestones as she was always working nights/earlies etc.
My grandad worked full-time too, so it was a tough life.
However, I am very sure that the medical profession has moved on somewhat since then and there is a shed load more support for mothers who wish to get into the medical profession now. Courses are Good at being flexible and you can switch to part-time if you find the time constraints too hard to manage. The work itself might be unfamily-friendly, but I know that uni courses are generally a little more forgiving with hols etc (at least my course is).

Good luck, wishing you all the best.

Oh, if you get on a four year course then it's only the first year that is 9-5, and really it's not because you're doing two years worth of work in one. It's absolute hell. Literally working day and night. Worth it retrospectively if you can give up that time, BUT if I had children to start with I would do a 5 year course. It will ease them into it a bit more rather than you just disappearing out of their lives over night.

Really YellowDinosaur? It's not 12 hours on the wards. But we used to do 7-5 on the wards and then a few hours in the hospital library. When there was no rounds it was 9-5 and then the library.

Oh, and we had 7am lectures :(

I would say go for it or you will spend the rest of your life saying what if.

I retrained with 3 children (had number 4 in the second year of the degree) but carried on. Its impossible to have it all and there is always a price to pay. I lost friends as my life consists of family and work with little time for anything else but I love my job. I was 40 when I was at uni and the day I got to wear that cap and gown was one of the proudest moments of my life!

No one has everything just work out whats most important and go for it. You have wanted to do it for so long. It will be hard but then isn't everything thats really worth something.

Go for it or you will regret it forever. You will probably find there will be other people like you on your course and you will cope. On my nursing course there were loads of people with kids of various ages, single mums, pregnant people and they all managed. I know nursing is not as long but we still worked shifts etc. I do it now so that you have less stresses when they are teenagers as you will have finished the big part of training by then. You will also be a good role model for your children before they hit their teenage years and this could encourage them in their own studies.
good luck

Do a couple of weeks shadowing a junior doctor as per their normal shift and decide if its for you.

Thanks everyone, this is all really helpful advice and it's great to hear other experiences. I will definitely need lots of support if I go down this route that's for sure. My mum went to university when I was in junior school (about 10 I think) and my Dad already worked long hours. Mum had a big commute to uni so I wouldn't see her all day. She had to get a taxi to collect me from school and then I would be at home alone for a few hours until Dad got home. I remember being quite lonely and frightened about being on my own. In hindsight, it was an amazing thing that she did... but I couldn't understand it at all at the time. Obviously I will arrange childcare so that the kids are not alone though!! And it seems that quite a few of you are managing to juggle study and parenthood.

FlingontheValiant that's something I am worried about with the 4 year course, will it be a bridge too far? Because I won't have the full chemistry A level until next year, I can only apply to 4 year courses this year, and 5 year courses next year. I'm worried about waiting an extra year and then doing a longer course because I am older, but if it makes it easier for us then it may be worth the wait.

My partner is in his final year on a 4 year course. It's actually been less intensive than the 5 year course friends have done. Maybe it varies by university. There are lots of people on his course who are older (he was 27 when he started) & in his group of friends 4 of them have had babies while on the course. One mum has had TWO children without taking any time out, I frankly have no idea how she's managed that. DP reckons that the medical course is not super-hard work if you have ever actually worked in the workplace. He isn't a perfectionist either which I think helps.

You definitely need to have support though. Junior doctors schedules are rubbish, so someone will have to be there for the kids. But during your training there is no reason you won't be able to be home by 5/6 every day - DP always has been. Dreading August & the start of F1 personally!

Shizzle, my best friend is now in his third year of the four year course (he did English first time around) and he didn't even have Chemistry GCSE originally, and he's not the only one like that on his course - as I understand it they did a special exam instead. I reckon if someone who never did the right GCSEs can change their mind and re-train, you'll be fine!

I think if you are so keen you'd always regret not trying.

BTW I am thinking about training as a midwife - rubbish shifts during training - so I get the concerns! We are moving near family so they can help pick up the slack since DP won't be able to as a junior doctor.

I had first ds as a final year medical student. very hard work but very doable if you dont mind studying/ cramming in the evening..... you do need lots of support though either from a dp/dh or other close relative. This is mainly important because as a student you will often be expected to stay a bit late to see something interesting, and as a junior you will often be handed a rota with shifts about a week before a job starts and be expected to find childcare (although this is slowly improving).

hours are much better as a house officer/ FY1 than they used to be pre- EWTD. I have always worked fulltime and have gone on to have two more children ( one as a F2 and one as an ST2)...... so it cant be all that crap! I'm shortly going to finish my training to be a GP.

let me know if I can help with any specific questions :)

iskra, do you mind if I ask where your other half is doing his course? I have a friend who is training to be a midwife, she has just started a clinical placement and done a block of nights. She has a 1 year old DD, it's hard but she loves it and was bouncing off the walls when she got her first catch!

pootros that's a good idea, I volunteer at a teaching hospital, they might be ok with me lurking around the students and juniors!

streptococcus you are superwoman! Congrats on getting to the end of your training! Did you pick the GP route because it is family friendly (or so I've heard) or purely because it was what interested you most?

And thanks again to everyone else for taking the time to reply. I'm really glad I posted, I feel more positive about it now. The regret has been nagging at me for years.

Name changed as will possibly be recognisable from this.

Dh is just finishing his F1 year. He got on the 4 year course having just finished a science degree- afaik you need to be a graduate, preferably in a science, to get on the 4 yr. Perhaps this varies by University?

It was hugely competitive (hundreds and hundreds of applicants, 20 posts), and they were basically expected to fit the 1st and 2nd yr lectures in to one year- there were no lectures set up just for them. They had both years schedules and worked it out between them, often attending different ones which were on at the same time and then swapping notes. The first year was very full on.

After that it did ease quite a bit, as other posters have mentioned, if you have worked in the 'real world' it's not as much of a shock as for those coming from only education. Also lovely getting the majority of the school holidays off (no half terms though).

Now he is an F1 it is harder in many respects, easier in some too. He doesn't have the endless guilt of study weighing him down (if he wasn't studying he felt guilty), although he still does study in his time off it isn't quite so intense. The hours are huge though. He has to be in by 7am and is rarely home before 7pm at leadt 5 days a week. Most weeks there is a 8pm or 9pm finish in there which doesn't usually finish on time, and then I think every 3rd or 4th weekend is fairly normal (this is mostly a shorter day though) with no extra time off.
For example, he may work 12 days in a row with 3 of those being 12 or 13 hours, all the rest being 10 hours and virtually none of them finishing on time. He would then get 2 days off, and be back for 5 more at least 10 hour shifts. I'm not joking when I say that he doesn't see the children awake for a whole week sometimes. Also has other things which need to be done during year- audits, presentations, other things to add in to your CV so you can follow the career options you hope for.

However, this is the busiest bit he is on, the next placement he will not be doing quite so many hours as shifts start later and no nights. Hours depend on which area you are working in and what pay bandng it fits in to. I think that this also differs by hospital though. Most hospitals we looked at did a basic banding for at least one of the 3 or 4 month placements, and this will have basically 9-5 Mon to Fri working hours. The other placements will then be higher pay and more/more unsociable hours.

Again this may differ between hospitals, but it is quite difficult to book leave and occasionally to find out what your shifts will be before you start a new post. Leave for DH is divided up so he can only take a prescribed number of days per placement, this means you can't fit in a 'proper' holiday, not a big deal for us, but maybe for some.

We have 3 young DC. Absolutely no way could I have done what he has done. You must have to really want it to go through all that.

He does love it though and is very committed, and left school with nothing, so has done incredibly well

Good luck with it!

Gosh that's a bit massive, sorry