to think anyone over the age of 25 playing computer games on their own should grow up?

[FlorencesMachine]

Maybe it's a generation thing, but I always thought computer games were for children

YABVVVVVVU.

I am 32 years young own ever machine under the sun and I have no intention of growing up, I play games, work in the industry, play guitar and build Gundam model kits (Japanese robot toys to you) if DF didn't keep saying no I'd have a skateboard and declare myself an urban Ronin with an attitude and outfit to match (unfortunately he is boring).

What do you want me to do all day? go out drinking at the pub? cool as that maybe they be expensive now days, and I simply don't know when to stop so that isn't good on a daily basis.

Watch TV and soaps? I'd rather wake up in a gutter stinking of my own urine thanks it's more dignified then watching Eastenders.

Gaming is bigger then both the music and movie biz, the average age of a gamer is 18+, you learn plenty from gaming, about Mana and Ragnorok and all sorts of pointless things like that plus it'sthe best kind of escapism and helps you unwind and relax.

There is no such thing as gaming addiction only people desperate for escapism from their rotten depressing lives IMHO, people who play games to the detriment of work/school/family life have deeper issues that need facing, it's not a simple case of the game is addictive.

Now I bid the farewell I be off to play Chrono Trigger DS

Ryoko,

At least least you admit the premise that computer games are childish in your first sentence

Only in the same way as every other waste of your lifetime.

childish is something fun and silly rather then something which is boring and hard work.

Movies are childish, games are childish, music is childish etc.

Heres to having fun and what ever floats your boat.

That's such a sad attitude, I'm so sorry

Rather patronising, Florences.

There are many different types of games out there. I suspect you are incapable of enjoying a single one, but I wonder if you'd change your mind if you did? Or are you completely and stubbornly wed to the idea that only children should be enjoying this fun activity?

If you believe life has no meaning then we are just here to enjoy our time on this planet and make the lives of those we care for more enjoyable. I see no reason why computer games are worse than any other way of passing time.
Having children is a selfish thing to do with your time. The world is overpopulated and we don't need more kids. We choose to have them because we thing raising kids would be an interesting and challenging thing to do with our time, and our bodies want us to procreate.
Pretending having kids is somehow more noble and worthwhile than playing computer games on an overpopulated planet is just deluding yourself.
All activities just pass the time until we die.

Florence, as you have now read over the last couple of days, all sorts of people play games, the same people who read poetry, watch films, go to the theatre, philosophise, exercise or do bugger all with their spare time. Being too grown-up or too highbrow to play games is a non-argument.

I can't imagine never playing another game in my life! Mah Jongg with my parents and grandparents, Civilisation at Christmas with our friends or WoW. It's all the same really. I don't want to "grow up" if it means giving up having fun. Personally I don't think games are childish and growing up doesn't have to mean giving them up. Sad is not having fun, it's hard to do both at the same time!

[Frantically scratches World of Warcraft 'Blood Elves' sticker off her laptop before anyone sees] No yeah.. You're quite right.. Computer games are for nerds... ;)

Yes I can't imagine a world without gaming, without the stimulus what would you do, sitting around with passive entertainment is boring, we strive to win, gaming is a challenge to reach the end, to achieve 100% in a way it's like a sport.

In Korea it is a sport and people earn big money playing Starcraft tournaments.

And what of the disabled gamers, do you want to deny someone with limited mobility the chance of escapism to ride a horse around the old west or run around a post apocalyptic war zone?.

Our industry is in shit, the governments promised tax breaks, turned into a lie when they got power, we now have no independent large devs of our own since Square-Enix bought Eidos, we have a lot of talent, we make great games like Little Big Planet, more and more people are studying in order to be part of the industry.

Such attitudes hold us back, blindly treating the biggest entertainment industry in the world like it's just for kids, and to be looked down at is detrimental to the economy and the dreams of many people, we practically created this industry we where the masters of home gaming in the 80's with the C64, Spectrum, ZX81 etc and we have given it all away.

Filthy blood elf! I challenge you to a duel!

Ryoko - at least the success of app games on iPhone and elsewhere have led to a resurgence in small teams or 'bedroom coding' again.

Agh, that's like people who think comics are only for children. The existence of children's comics does not mean they're only for children any more than the existence of children's books or films means that those mediums are just for children.

And the same for computer games. It's ridiculous snobbery to say that just because you can't see the appeal, no one else should and if they do then they're immature. I don't get why grown men still run around a football pitch, but I get that if they enjoy it, they're entitled to do it without being criticised.

Blood elf! lol Goblins ftw!

traptraptraptraptraptraptrap aaaaand Arcane Shot to your face - WHOOPAH!

Oooh, can you play as a goblin now? I haven't played since hitting lvl 80 on WotLK, couldn't afford the subscription any more

"And what of the disabled gamers, do you want to deny someone with limited mobility the chance of escapism to ride a horse around the old west"

Yes. and they should bloody well thank me for it as well. RDR was awful.

snowbear

You take that back! RDR was Epic, John Marston is awesome.

Ryoko, I left that point out. I have long term pgp, fibromyalgia, suffer TIAs, etc it's amazing to be running around, riding a horse, jumping off buildings, being useful to someone who doesn't see the broken body, just that I can hit something harder than them or the same as them and we hit something bigger than us together or even just the NPCs. If growing up means accepting the limitations of my physical form, I'll take childish any day!

I have a very neglected paladin (I struggled with all the changes about 2.5 years ago so she got dumped at 70 but I can't bear to delete her) a lvl 80 mage, lvl 73? DK, lvl 30ish worgen, a low lvl goblin and a 30ish warlock which is my ran out of credit character (ie on his account) plus a few randoms that I started and didn't get anywhere with.

Has anyone else noticed how we WoW players always hijack these threads?

Loved the idea of RDR but was just utterly bored by its execution.
I also think Rockstar have lost their way when it comes to story-lines.
The character of the cut scenes (in RDR a principled frontear man with a troubled past, in GTA always a bad guy with an odd sense of morality) has almost no resemblance to the acts he has carried out under my control. In RDR I was tipping my hat and calling people "mam" in the cut-scenes when the reality is I just hog tied a female civillian and placed her on the railroad tracks to see what would happen only moments ago.

I played guild wars for a bit, but my laptop is just not quite there to give a decent quality of play. The lag is dreadful, so I won't play WoW or GW any more.

Xbox for me all the way.

I have to admit despite being a WoW-player myself (until a few months ago, and now I play Rift), I would never have dared mention it on MN because I would have thought nobody would play it, or at least admit to it. So it's quite refreshing to see people do.

There's no shame in it. I'm sure that none of us are the kind of players who go unwashed for two weeks, piss in pint glasses and leave our children in their cots while we feed our gaming addictions. It's the media's fault for all them "Parents! You are foolish and irresponsible if you let your children play computer games!" TV shows that were on a while ago, where they'd find two or three worse case scenarios and then imply that everyone who plays any form of computer game is just as bad.

RDR was excellent the cut scenes where excellent, you can't fault that voice acting, you had full freedom my only grumble was that you couldn't start a fight when drunk, and lets not forget it was your choice to hogtie that woman no one made you do it, your morality is up to you, JM is a very likable guy who regrets his past and wants to move on but can't and isn't allowed to forget it, not at all the same as the 1 dimensional unlikeable charmless wanna be dons of GTA.

You can't compare it to GTA, not withstanding the fact GTA has been shit since in Vice City with the exception of China Town Wars, repeating the same boring crap over and over (I hear the new one is going to be in LA boring!) RDR was made by Rockstar San Diago makers of Canis Canem Edit (which I loved and wish they would make another one) and the original RD, they know how to be creative with the sandbox engine Rockstar north created.