to think that Christians do not want equal treatment, they want their views to be given a privileged in public life.

[seeker]

and that the discrimination that some Christians claim they are suggering is actually just the withdrawing of that privileged position, and the levelling of the playing fiels for people of faith and people without faith.

good post Hatti

MHD, Christianity is a syncretistic religion, and that is really its strongest point.

But I do agree (and I know this is offtopic) that the Dan Brown stuff is ludicrous, and made more so by people believing in it. All this stuff about Gnosticism being covered up, and protected by monks and Opus Dei, when in fact you can buy the Gnostic gospels in Waterstones.

I also find the underlying plot that people who know the 'true' version of Christianity supprt a secret powerful organisation who spend their money on protecting a pure European bloodline that is descended from Christ to be dubious from an ethical point of view.

NotJustKangaskhan there are only 2 christian holdays. And people of other faiths are not obliged to work on those days.

However, I know of many companies that allow their workers to work on public holidays and trade the time for their own religious holiday - so a Muslim person might work Good Friday, and then take off Ramadan or Eid. Its quite normal practice in the service industry. Or was where I worked.

Fair enough. But as a member of the club I think it's unfair that I'm preached to on this subject and I try to live by it, but that those higher up don't follow it.

I accept that they have a right to not allow it, but I don't support it.

There's no reason why people shouldn't question the rules of their religion.

Ah, sorry, for the last 2 years pentecost has been late May, so I assumed the bank holiday was for that.

Oh no by all means question it.
It's one of the main reasons I renounced my faith in Catholicism.
I found many of there practices deeply unfair, disgusting and hypocritical. I was however also always critical of those who felt they had a right to dictate what the church should do. I have heard many arguments along the lines of "the church should be forced by law to accept gay-marriage" etc. which to me is as equally ridiculous as the fact that the church preaches love but will not accept gay marriage.

*their
can't believe I posted my own pet hate

I'm a christian, and broadly agree with MillyR. I'm not entirely comfortable with the idea of bishops in the HoL or daily christian worship in schools as it doesn't seem equitable. On the other hand, I think in the last census, somewhere in the region of 80% of the population described themselves as christian. It is the culture of this country. So the public holidays are christian holidays - and my co-workers blaspheme against my God on a daily basis.

I'm not looking for favourable treatment of my religious beliefs. But I don't think you can just extract all the christianity out of the country, and I don't think most people would want that to happen, even if it were possible.

You know a year ago I would have given a thread like this at least another 3 hours of my time ( on and off ) but now I'm starting to yawn - I've just heard it all before - same old shite -

Seeker - start a revolution, if you can fight as good as you moan you'll go far

MillyR - turn your list around and ask yourself how those priviledges put you at a disadvantage - ( forget (1) because the school issue has been done to death on here, plus singing a hymn once a week isn't tantamount to indoctrination - get over it )
in America their kids have to swear ( daily ) allegiance to the USA and God - they don't take any nonsense.

Have a nice day.

seeker you said "You see - Christians never really do waht to "get into the whole schools debate thing"

Yoiu sound liek you really hate all Christians. For one thing, you are generalising against ALL Christians, and for another, you saound very scathing.

For the fifth time WHAT RELIGION ARE YOU SEEKER? because as a Christian, I find these attacks offensive and I would not speak about other religions the way you speak about Christians and their "privelege" seeking ways and "refusal to "get into the whole schools debate thing".

blu- sorry I just don't know what you're going on about now.

Carmina, they don't put me at a disadvantage. I am culturally Christian and an atheist. I benefit hugely from the advantages given to Christian culture and am quite happy to keep many of the elements of it, which I was I don't deny the privilege that Christian culture has.

Ha ha this thread is very funny.

YES we are a christian country get over it. Our laws come from the 10 commandments and form the basis of our laws in this country or what we perceive as right or wrong.

Christmas is not one day. it is the majority of December into January and to call this period Winterval to appease a small number of people is offensive.

It is not the other religions that are complaining but PC do-gooders.

And Seeker why do you find it hard to tell us what your religion is? Are you ashamed?

Bank holidays and the like benefit everyone. I still wish we celebrated St Georges day and we as a country were more patriotic and proud of our history.

MrSpoc

Aren't you just proving the point "Our laws come from the 10 commandment", very funny!

"to call this period Winterval to appease a small number of people is offensive."

Back to the urban myths again.....

I agree with Seeker, actually. I think it has been a culture shock for some members of the C of E community to discover that parts of their belief system are now quite outdated or even offensive. And whilst there is no actual victimisation going on, and whilst anyone is free to indulge in whatever belief sytems they see fit, when the belief is put up against the law, the law always wins. Always has.

I think the muslim community has more reason to think they are being victimised against.... tabloid stories (like the Winterval one) are routinely massaged to make it look as though traditional ways are somehow under threat from them.

But in a court of law, I think the all faiths are now being treated equally and that is precisely as it should be. No fear or favour. Incidentally the crime of blasphemy (which only applied to anti-christian statements and was used to persecute atheists and followers of other faiths) was abolished in 2008.

Mr Spoc Well said :)

Seeker- How about if I rephrase some of your wording so you can see how offensive you are being. I have changed "Christians" to different religions and quoted you directly:

For example, what if you'd put:

"AIBU to think that Muslims do not want equal treatment, they want their views to be given a privileged in public life?"

"You see - Jews never really do want to "get into the whole schools debate thing"

or for example

"the discrimination that some Sikhs claim they are suggering is actually just the withdrawing of that privileged position, and the levelling of the playing fields for people of faith and people without faith." (sic)

Now do you see why I find it offensive, especially when you are clearly refusing to state your own religion, passing it off as "irrelevant" on a thread you began about religion. Substitute "christian" for any other group and it just wouldn't be allowed- it would be regarded as offensive and Un PC.

I am not seeking extyra priveleges as a Christian, but I would like my religion to be equally as respected and protected from vitriolic attacks as other religions are.

Seven times in total you have been asked - WHAT IS YOUR RELIGION SEEKER?

It isn't true that you couldn't replace Christians with any other group in the thread title without being un-PC. You could replace it with white people, non-disabled people, heterosexual people, people with no caring responsibilities, men or wealthy people.

All groups who hold privilege in our society, but includes members who sometimes like to pretend they don't hold any privilege

"Substitute "christian" for any other group and it just wouldn't be allowed- it would be regarded as offensive and Un PC."

That's twisting the argument. Christianity or at least a christian heritage/tradition, as someone has already stated, claims to cover 80% of the population and our head of state is also the head of the C of E. When asking questions about the motives or expectations of christians/christianity therefore we're on home soil.... it's self-examination if you will.

Minority ethnic groups do get accused quite regularly of various misdemeanours - even if only in a sideways, non-specific, kind of way. You've only to read this thread to see repeated occurrences of 'for fear of causing offence to others'.... and we all know to whom that refers. I think it's rather more insidious to accuse a minority group of trying take over than it is to challenge the established majority claim to special treatment.

Atheist, btw... :)

Nesta: you're really not getting the culturally christian/religiously christian distinction are you? Pease read milly's post of 9:41 for clarity.

I think seeker is an atheist, guys. It's not obligatory to have a religion, you know.

I'm Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster, perhaps seeker is one of my brethren.

Interestingly, the 'tolerance for other religions' and 'separation of church and state' ideologies were a direct consequence of the Reformation, subsequent religious schisms and the persecuted Puritans who left for America.

That viewpoint is as culturally specific, in its way, as any religion; but seems unable to apply the same relativism to itself as it does to other ideologies.

Just saying

Well, I'm RC, and I'd rather there was complete separation of church and state. No faith schools, no religious calendrical holidays. No RC priests commenting on politics. No bishops in the H of L, and no head of state as head of C of E. Absolutely no laws to placate religious bodies - no bans on gayness or even abortion. Why not use persuasion?????

I think we would be better tolerated if we left the state to itself. And since I don't much fancy funding c of e schools, I don't see why anybody else should want to fund RC schools. There could be such schools, but they'd have to be private (as in Australia and the US). People would have to take religious days off as orthodox Jews and Muslims do. SIMPLE JUSTICE!!! :)

Maybe this should go on the Unpopular Opinions thread....

sieglinde - don't think you can stop priests commenting on politics - freedom of speech and all that. And I'm not sure most people would want to lose Christmas Day and Boxing Day as bank holidays - that's a fairly ingrained tradition. There might be an argument for ditching Easter as a bank holiday and having a fixed date instead.

As for bans on gayness - I'm not sure how big an influence actual religion has played in the slow speed of changing the law to give gay people equal rights. I think that might be more of a cultural thing.