To think that it is not particularly healthy to "promote" being plus size?

[MaterTheGreater]

I'm sure this discussion's been done, so no yawns please, but on Radio 2 this afternoon they were talking about the story in the news that 1 in 4 items sold in women's clothing are a size 18 or over.

They were saying that this was great and that Adele was a great role model for women.

Now I agree that they shouldn't be sending size zero models down the catwalk, and I think it's great that some designers are using something like a size 14, but I really don't think it's in any woman's best interest to think that a size 18 is a good thing.

I love Adele - she has an amazing voice, and comes across as a lovely girl, but she is definitely "overweight", and healthwise that can never be a good thing.

I know that obviously if you are taller with a bigger frame, then you need a bigger size, but I think even at 5'11" (which a good friend of mine is), an 18 would still be overweight.

I am 5'8" and a size 18 on the top half and 16 on the bottom and I am totally miserable. I am constantly worried about my health and the effect that my weight has on it. I am currently trying to shed the pounds, which is hard, but I really do not want to be this size - it's disgusting and unhealthy and I hate all the "big is beautiful" bollocks.

Actually I found the study here, it's interesting reading and I need a bit of time to read through it properly.

Worth noting though that the subjects were older people, where low BMI doesn't necessarily indicate low body fat but also loss of bone density/muscle mass which is associated with lack of fitness generally.

As usual though the truth is more complicated than we often imagine!

I'm sorry but I really cannot buy into the fact that you can be fat and healthy.

Did anyone watch the supersize v superskinny kids just now? The slices of the human body - the third one along - he had so much fat it was crushing his internal organs!

Taken from the World Health Organisation website:

"Being overweight or obese can have a serious impact on health. Carrying extra fat leads to serious health consequences such as cardiovascular disease (mainly heart disease and stroke), type 2 diabetes, musculoskeletal disorders like osteoarthritis, and some cancers (endometrial, breast and colon). These conditions cause premature death and substantial disability.
What is not widely known is that the risk of health problems starts when someone is only very slightly overweight, and that the likelihood of problems increases as someone becomes more and more overweight. Many of these conditions cause long-term suffering for individuals and families. In addition, the costs for the health care system can be extremely high."

And to those of you who commented on me doing something about my weight, as I said previously - I am in the process of trying to lose weight and have lost 7lb so far.

SGB - sizes 14 - 18 could quite easily be healthy - it's sizes 18 plus that I think are unhealthy.

I was interested to hear on the newws that all the stuff about carrying weight around your middle does not actually make any difference to your health . TBH i think you need to work out how fit you are ,if you can walk up a hill without stopping and be able to recover in a very short period of time or be able to run 5k ,then regardless of weight your heart is probably doing ok . I am currently fat ,although i have a strange body shape , i fit into size 16 jeans ,infact in places they are too big ,but i weigh 15 stone . My ideal goal weight would be 11 stone ,where i would be a perfectly happy size 12 .

The day that a young girl compromises her health by radically altering her diet in order to become a size 18, I will agree with you.

That's not going to happen anytime soon in our culture, I would wager.

OP: I agree. I have just lost 3 stone, and BMI was 30, its now 22.5. My bodyfat is now 25% (was 40%!)

But BMI doesn't tell whole story. I agree with the comments about waist measurement though - carrying weight around stomach is unhealthy. Carrying weight on hips is not. But unlikely you'd be a size 18 and a healthy weight.

"I don't want to see obesity promoted any more than I want to see underweight, skeletal frames promoted. I just wish people would stop judging others on their weight generally though. I liked Adele because of her music and voice"

Hear hear!

I like to see someone who is "plus size" portrayed positively in the media, not because I want to emulate their appearance, but because I am fed up with being made to feel like a social pariah because I am a size 24!

I know it is unhealthy, and I know I am probably killing myself. I often feel lonely and disgusted about myself. I do not need the whole world to make me feel worse, it won't stop me over eating. The more negative I feel about my appearance, the more I tend to binge eat.

I don't really see how being quite heavily overweight can be good for your health. It puts excess strain on your joints, bones, heart, lungs and so on, which over time leads to greater risk of lifestyle illnesses such as heart disease, diabetes and so on. Perhaps when you are younger you will get away with it but as you age it won't do you much good. My own family are prone to heart disease, and my father was overweight and didn't exercise and died relatively young after several early heart attacks. Sadly, by the time the message hit home that he should exercise, he was no longer able to even walk far because of the effect diabetes had on his legs.

I am a runner, and you run faster the lighter you are. I'm a size 8/10 but I'm short. However this winter I was hospitalised with pneumonia, and I'm sure I wouldn't have got it if I had stayed indoors more, not trained hard in sub zero conditions, eaten more and not watched my diet, etc.. But my cholestorol and blood pressure are lower because of my regime and apart from the pneumonia I enjoy great health, which was not the case for my father when at the same age.

I feel uncomfortable with plus sizes being promoted as healthy role models. There is a far greater problem with obesity related illnesses and if a build must be promoted by the government, I'd like to see it being a slim, fit one.

Its a difficult one because of course women with body sizes larger than average are beautiful, but yes too large is unhealthy. As is too small. Too little fat and excess fat are both unhealthy, but its a hard thing to say when trying to promote body confidence.
On the one hand its brilliant to see so called "plus sized" people being portrayed in the media and on screen etc however to promote it as an ideal size to be or as being healthy is misleading and wrong.

I read somewhere that its better to talk in terms of health rather than weight; I think the latter term has too many conotations attached to it.

Am I the only person who doesn't know (or care) what their BMI is?!

I'm currently a size 18-20. In January I was a size 22. Hopefully by the summer I will be a size 14, which is for me an ideal size. I have been fat for a long time as protection from a shitty, abusive relationship. I put on over 5 stone because the fatter I got, the less my then P bothered me for sex, although the more he told me I was fat and ugly. I have always loved clothes though, and one of the things that kept me going was being able to buy nice things in sizes 18+, I was always able to look as good (for my size) as possible. that meant a lot to me, and still does. I'm sure the same is true for other people my size. The answer for me would definitely not have been to take away that choice of clothes. That would have lowered my self esteem yet further.

Surely the message should be that there isn't just one way to be, we don't all have the same build, we are all individuals. We should all aim to live a healthy life, and eat well but that doesn't mean we all have to be size 8s. I'm obviously not healthy, I wouldn't be the size I am if I was, but I know I eat a much better diet than thinner friends (lots of whom exist mainly on caffine/nicotine/junk food). I can also touch my toes and put my feet behind my head which again is something not many of them could do!

I think the issue is that we automatically link attractiveness with size. They should be too separate issues.

Attractiveness = variable and not fixed to weight

Size = Bigger is usually unhealthier

YANBU

I remember all the hype and article in the paper about banning size zero clothes to stop people and models aspiring to be a size zero as it was unhealthy.

Well why limit it to thin people? Why not ban all clothing sizes over an 18. It's pretty hard to be over a size 18 and not be obese.

I'm borderline overweight and a size 12. If i was a size 18, I would be obese.

It has nothnig to do with it being physically unattractive, being very overweight wrecks joints and your health.

I agree with SGB that There's also a big feminist issue about the whole obsession with women's weight. It stems from the idea that women should eat less than men, should be self-negating and not take up too much space.

The OP is right that obesity shouldn't be promoted as a good thing. I wonder if that's what the radio debate was about though (I didn't hear it so have no idea). Is it possible that what they're saying is that it's good that we see more real women of all shapes and sizes like Adele in the media because the music, fashion, TV and film industries traditionally have only promoted the ideal of the slim, young woman.

I would say that I'm pleased to see more women like Adele and Beth Ditto being successful in their industry regardless of their BMI or body shape. But that's not the same thing as saying I think that being "plus size" is something we should all aspire to in terms of health.

sigh
I'm 5'3" and a size 18. It's not fun. Luckily, I have an hourglass figure, but it's creeping on around my waist

I completely agree with the whole "diets are a con" thing, and I also agree that plus sizes themselves shouldn't be aspired to, but maybe the characteristics of women like Adele. Perhaps we see her to be a lovley person because we have already dismissed her "attractiveness" and fashion sense because she's heavy; therefore, we must concentrate on her career/personality whereas with people like VB, we don't get past our/medias obsession with her appearance.

I think it all depends on how happy you are in your own skin.

I used to weigh 20st 7lbs, I'm 5' 10" so my BMI would have been 41.2 apparently, morbidly obese.
I was happy though, I was on Slimming World on and off for a year, got down to 19st 8.5lbs. I then decided it was time to do something about it and I joined Weight Watchers, where I lost 6.5st in a year.

When I got down to my lowest weight of 13st 1.5lbs, I was bloody miserable, I looked gaunt and I was obsessed with not putting on another pound in case my stomach poked out and what not. I also don't think I looked that attractive. My breasts had strunk, my collarbones stuck out and my face looked too thin. My goal weight was meant to be 12st 3lbs, God knows what I would look like then!

Then I went through a round of IVF that had to be stopped due to me having severe OHSS and then I had a miscarriage which totally floored me, and I started eating badly again, so I've put on about 2.5st in the last 9 months. I'm losing it again atm, but at my current weight (14st something) I feel the most confident and happy. I'm a size 16/18 and I'm currently ridiculously healthy.

I think what we should be promoting is your size has bugger all to do with your happiness, I got down to a size 12, I felt like shit, I may get back there again but it's not the be all and end all what size I am, all that matters is how I currently feel and I feel fab. I don't think I look disgusting and I'm certainly not unhealthy (well not because I'm fat anyway) and I have no joint problems or high blood pressure.

I don't think promoting morbid obseity as a beautiful thing is a good idea at all, but if you're a little bit chubby but you're enjoying life, who cares? Life is too bloody short.

wickedwitchofwaterloo - in the nicest possible way, I'm not sure how you can be "ridiculously healthy"?

It's not just about what you eat, but it's about exercise too - we all need to exercise to ensure that our bodies function correctly, good blood and lymph flow, muscle mass etc.

To be "ridiculously healthy", I think you'd need to be eating a diet of a lot of fresh vegetables and fruit and doing quite a bit of exercise, in which case you would not be 14st something with a BMI of 28 .

It's all down to interpretation I suppose. I will never be happy with a BMI of over 25 because I know that my health is at risk. Knowing that makes me feel edgy and determined to do something about it.

Some of you may feel happy overweight, but I don't know how you can be truly happy in knowing that you are compromising your health.

Why not ban all clothing sizes over an 18? Do you really want to see my flabby obese body in the flesh????

I gained 4 stone during & after my latest pregnancy taking me from a size 12 (10.5st 5ft7) to a size 18. I also went up 2 bra sizes, 1 shoe size and added 10" on my waist. As it happens it didn't look too bad on me as it gave me a great hourglass shape I learnt to dress and with a newborn to coo over i didnt care for a while BUT there is NO WAY a size 18+ can be healthy. My body felt heavy, my stomach, arms, legs all wobbled and I didn't move with the same speed, grace or agility as my smaller self.
I dont think anyone is suggesting you can't be big and happy, but I do wholeheartedly agree you can't be big and healthy.
LCN (1.5st down 2.5st to go;))

there is some gobshite talked on here
fat is not healthy
comfortable is not healthy and unless you want private healthcare you should make steps to reduce excess weight
people paying their taxes for gastric bands makes me cross

YANBU

Tobylerone you do speak sense (I loved that sketch btw 'Smartiepants' )

notamopsa - it's far cheaper to pay for a gastric band than the years of health care needed for someone very overweight.

cheapest of all - diet

I don't think anyone is promoting plus size, but overweight women exist and we need clothes etc!! Should we wear sack cloth and ashes in order to repent our fat sins??

YABU.

OP, this thread seems to be based solely on your unahppiness with your body? Not all "plus size" women have such negative views of themselves.

Can we move away from the suggestion that anyone over a size 14 is massively unhealthy/suffering all sorts of aches and pains/etc? Yes ok, being seriously overweight is in the long term not thought to be good for your health, however my understanding is that yo-yo dieting (repeatedly going up and down by several stone) is actually worse for you than staying fat?

FWIW, I have thin/average sized friends with back pain, joint problems, high cholestorol etc. I'm much heavier than them yet have no such problems - and never have had. That's not to say I don't also know fat people with health issues (I do) but it's as wrong to assume fat people are riddled with ailments as to suggest those who are slim to average must be fit and healthy....

Just to add, I am currently trying to lose weight. This is because in terms of my appearance, I feel better at s 14 than s 18. I'm not doing it primarily for my health, because I have no health problems at the size I am.