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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To not want to be slagged off all the time because I was born in England?

178 replies

JustaNickname · 19/03/2011 23:32

I've lived in Ireland nearly my whole life and my heritage is Irish essentially Both my parents were born in England when my grandparents went there to work when times were hard. My parents grew up in England, met each other, had me, moved to Ireland and had my sister etc. Even though my family tree would be Irish and my son was born here I'm not ashamed of having been born in England and I love it there and still have plenty of family there. My problem is that a lot of the people I know slag off the English all the time to the point I actually end up getting into heated discussions with them. Usually on FB over Football matches and such but sometimes in RL as well.

AIBU to expect that If you really hate the English that much and insistent on labeling every English person a C**T then maybe you shouldn't be such a hypocrite and Go to England, eat English food, watch English tv shows/films and support English football teams? I think i might actually be over sensitive but it honestly bothers me :(

OP posts:
PepsiPopcorn · 19/03/2011 23:35

YANBU. Racism is unacceptable.

MrsTerryPratchett · 19/03/2011 23:36

Dont bother fighting. I have lived in two other countries, spent all my time defending England, then came back to England and spent all my time defending the other countries. Its all just prejudice. And, my Scottish parents slag off the English all the time too (even though they live there!).

worraliberty · 19/03/2011 23:41

I'm the opposite.

My parents are both Irish. They came here 56 years ago and for many years suffered terrible racism. I mean proper racism too..not your average someone saying their child 'threw a paddy' instead of a temper fit.

When my Dad went for a job with Ford's motor company, he tried to stay in a B&B in Dagenham but there were signs in the windows saying "No Dogs - No Irish" and they were pretty standard. He slept in a telephone box..and went for his interview the next morning (he got the job!)

I've heard racist comments from Irish people about the English and heard racist comments about the Irish from the English...football and rugby don't help!

But all in all I'd say from personal experience most of it has died out..especially since the IRA stopped their bombing campaigns.

Now a lot of Muslims are experiencing the same sort of ignorant comments I had to experience as a child..re terrorists etc.. and it's not nice to see or hear.

maighdlin · 19/03/2011 23:44

i have never in my life as a northern irish person who has supported england. never. they would follow the premier league and stuff but when its international have never heard of anyone supporting the english. i think its because they won the world cup in 66 and never fucking stop going on about it.

MaisyMooCow · 19/03/2011 23:44

It's just like that annoying generalisation you sometimes hear when people say 'I hate the French'. Most of them have never been to France or even know a French person. Pure ignorance!

Original poster
JustaNickname · 19/03/2011 23:51

Thanks for all your posts. I'm completely loyal to both country's in the way that if I heard an English person slagging off Ireland I would be writing exactly the same post. I was always picked in school for being English and this went on well into secondary school and still happens now. I think racism and generalizations are disgusting. Just shows how ignorant people can be.

OP posts:
A1980 · 20/03/2011 00:04

My mother's Scottish and she slags the English off no end notwithstanding the fact that she left Scotland about 40 years ago and has never gone back. I remind her constantly that her two children are English, have never lived in Scotland or spent much time there and that I am actually taking major, MAJOR offense to her comments. She sneered at me!!!

I once told her to fuck off home if it's so great, I'd had enough of her.

Weirdly I have another friend who is the other way round: British by birth but raised in South Africa and now has returned to live here. She laughs her ass off whenever the English lose against SA in rubgy, etc. She slags off the NHS and says SA healthcare is superior. I didn't care if I spoiled the friendship and told her to go back to SA if we're so rubbish!

MaisyMooCow · 20/03/2011 00:09

Actually, there are some people I wouldn't mind slagging off the English/British and that's the poor people who have to put up with our drunken louts on holiday. I'm sure they like taking our money but it's no excuse for some of the behaviour that goes on over there.

AgentZigzag · 20/03/2011 00:10

I've got a lot of lovely Welsh rellies Smile and one of my uncles on fb had a piccy of himself in an ABE (Anyone But England) shirt when the footy world cup thing was on.

I felt obliged to jokingly pick him up on it Grin which he took with good humour.

But I get the feeling that the rivaly/banter between the different countries in the UK is all very friendly on the surface, but for some it's kind of not when you poke about.

It's a smile, but through gritted teeth.

Underneath it's a bit seething at past injustices that are generalised to everyone from that country.

I don't think you're being sensitive, if it's there, how can you not feel it.

Sugarkane · 20/03/2011 00:24

Im English and live in Scotland and not a day goes by when I dont hear the English being slagged off, my favourite is my MIL who insists that the English are this and that and a bunch of racists, not even batting an eyelid at her hypocritical comment. Although I thing its worst for me as my surname is Thatcher and everyone over a certain age feels the need to comment or check im not related Hmm.

A1980 · 20/03/2011 00:27

Good to know Sugarcane. Perhaps remind them that you're all benefitting from English taxes being channelled north and you enjoy free uni tuition, access to drugs the english don't have, free prescriptions, free eye tests, free dental treatment, free residential care for the elderly.... Hmm

Imagine the uproar if the English got all those things free and the Scots didn't. But the English are the supreme evil. I don't get it.

MadamDeathstare · 20/03/2011 00:41

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

LetThereBeRock · 20/03/2011 00:49

I keep forgetting that we Scots don't pay taxes.Hmm

We don't yet have free prescriptions btw,A1980,as for free dental treatment,that's news to me.You also forgot the longer waiting lists.

Is it really necessary to respond to bigotry with further insults,rather than just agreeing that it's not acceptable regardless of who the target is?

Original poster
JustaNickname · 20/03/2011 00:50

I didn't think so many people would understand where I was coming from so thank you all I do feel loads better now that I'm making something out of nothing.

Also I really feel for anyone in the same position whether there English, Irish, Scottish, Welsh or American :o

OP posts:
A1980 · 20/03/2011 00:55

Letthereberock, you pay taxes but google the Barnett Forumla which has been in place for 30 years. It results in more of the whole UK's taxes as a whole being spent on Scotland. So as a result the Scots get 20% more of the UK's tax per head than the English get and get perks we don't as a result.

It wasn't to raise insults it was simply to point out that everyone seems to gun for the English and slag us off but what do we actually get that warrants it? Why are we so hated? My main point was we don't say anything about it but if there was a forumla in place that meant England got all the extras and Scotland didn't I can imagine the cries of discrimination and racism.

Cartoose · 20/03/2011 01:06

"Try being an American on Mumsnet"

Or an Australian. I can't count how many times I've heard "Australians are all racist ... blah blah blah" on MN. Well, I'm not racist thank you very much. It gets a bit old after a while.

WinterOfOurDiscountTents · 20/03/2011 01:14

Where do you live? Sounds like you are over-sensitive to me, if you've lived here all your life nobody would know you are english-born anyway, so how are you getting into so many arguments?

Original poster
JustaNickname · 20/03/2011 01:18

I live in Ireland. My parents both have English accents and so does my sister even though she was born here (Don't ask why she has an English accent as we don't even understand :o) My accent is a mixture of both English and Irish and people pick up on it straight away. Also I live in a small town so when I get into a conversation with someone they ask if I'm from x town and I reply no I'm not from here originally and so on. I live in the kind of town where everyone knows your business. They know what I had for breakfast most of the time never mind the country I'm from!

OP posts:
AgentZigzag · 20/03/2011 01:22

If the people who know the OP have ever got to know her Winter, then at some point she might have mentioned she's English born?

But that's beside the point, it could be someone who doesn't know the OP from Adam, but the OPs hearing them slag 'the English' off and she knows she was born in England and feels a connection to the country.

Because of that she might defend a country she feels an affinity with and pick the person up on what they've said.

Thus sparking an argument.

WinterOfOurDiscountTents · 20/03/2011 01:29

It can't be a shock to anyone that England is not the most popular country for Irish people? Come off it!

I'm english born, I don't have arguments with anyone about it, nobody slags off England other than supporting any team against them in any sport.

Either you're in place full of fuckwits, or you're starting a lot of arguments yourself.

GKlimt · 20/03/2011 01:29

I have this experience, too. Neither one nor the other. But uncomfortably both.

There are some wonderful Irish writers who explore this dichotomy or even dissonance. I'll come back tomorrow with some titles if this thread is still around - too tired now.

KenDoddsDadsDog · 20/03/2011 07:29

I think some of it must be down to where you are? I have never managed to second guess thoughts towards to English in Ireland. My DH and family are nationalists but will happily watch England in the World Cup etc. Someone I work with is a staunch loyalist and makes a point of despising the English. In fifteen years, the only direct abuse I have had was also from a loyalist. The immediate community that I know doesn't give a shit where I am from.
English people are just as bad in my experience.

GwendolineMaryLacey · 20/03/2011 07:56

I am English born and spend every moment that I wasnt at school or work, in Ireland. I never had a moment's trouble or one single word in my 39 years. The opposite in fact. We also come from a small community and they all thought my brother and I were the bee's knees. My cousin was born in England and went back home at 6 and at 43 now people still pick up on her accent. No abuse there either. You must just know a lot of ignorant people OP, it's not countrywide.

washngo · 20/03/2011 07:59

I am Scottish (my dad is Scottish my mum us English and I was born in England but moved to Scotland when very young). I loved my home and where I grew up and really felt like I belonged there. But I had committed the terrible crime of having been born in England, had an English mum and worse still quite an English accent. After years and years of protesting "but I AM Scottish" I gave up and went with "sod it I'll be English if that's what you want". I was a fairly sensitive child and couldn't laugh it off which would prob hve been the best solution. But it's one of the reasons I wouldn't take my England born children back to live there, despite the fact that all my family still live there and I love the place. I wouldn't want them being teased like I was.

Heracles · 20/03/2011 07:59

Arguing on Facebook: the very definition of wasting your time.

Arguing about football: ditto.

Turn off your computer, breathe, read book, gain perspective.