To think that police policy of calling SS after three calls is contributing directly to people remaining in abusive situations?

[Springblumen]

And also those who say you have nothing to fear from SS have never actually had any dealings with them?

I know of more than one woman who has remained being knocked about because of the fear of SS involvement.

I don't know what the answer is but it is a shocking state of affairs when a public service is viewed with such fear and suspicion that it is actually contributing to higher levels of domestic abuse.

I agree with Lesley. The authorities have to draw the line somewhere.

I sympathise with OP - it is a sad state of affairs all round - but don't you think the lady you mentioned has a duty to protect herself and her children from harm?

Perhaps more safe houses for women fleeing their violent partners and stronger court orders (and stronger enforcement of those court orders) to keep violent partners away them, are the answers.

Allowing children to witness domestic violence is abusive.

If the abused parent is unable to priortise their child and leave then IMO SS quite rightly need to be involved.

There is lots of data to show that children who grow up in homes where DV takes place have problems.

But what if they have nowhere to go lurkerspeaks?

agree with lurker

there is always somewhere to go, even a refuge

surely thats better than being bashed or having your children bashed and damaged

I worked in a child protection team for 4 months a year ago. Unless the law has changed in that year, it doesn't take 3 episodes.

If the police go out to a violent incidence at a property and there are children in that property then it has to be reported to SS. We went out to a few houses where it was the first reported incident. It only takes once, not three times.

As another poster said, it is a well researched area that children living with domestic violence are 50% more likely to also be suffering from abuse.

Children living with domestic violence suffer post traumatic stress disorder.

There are far more statistics and research etc. but no child should live with that fear.

I sympathise (sp) with many women in this situation but what is the solution. There is none. I agree it is the female who is being punished but surely this is still better than the children suffering.

This solution is much better than what happened only a few years ago when police showed up. Which was nothing.

I'm sorry. As others have said there is always somewhere to go - refuge, relatives, friends while you get legal advice.

I have friends who have suffered DV but I think that we need to be realistic that it affects children.

It is somewhat ironic that on Mumsnet where sausage rolls are evil and a spoonful of sugar will kill your child someone is propogating the idea that DV is not harmful.

I've dealt with abuse professionally it crosses class, racial and all social boundaries. We as a society need to acknowledge this to start protecting all children.

IMO if the adults in a household are unable to prioritse the children's emotional/ physical needs then someone else needs to. That might well be SS.

Where on this thread does anyone suggest that DV is not harmful to children?

well here everytime the police are called to a DV you get a standard letter from SS a couple of days later asking if you need their help

i think it does stop people reporting to the polioce,but on the other hand after 4 letters from them in approx 8months i would of thought that they would of visited even a token visit,thats how families can slip through the net

being in a home where you witness and are subject to domestic abuse is a child protection issue - what would you suggest?

I also had an abusive XP who refused to leave. We had no money, he was very financially abusive as well as emotionally and mentally, ocassionally physically.
I found many people would judge me and say I had made the choice to stay with him.
Deep down they are right, but I wasn't ready to give up everything to eradicate him from my life.

He never went out without keys to the house and car. He refused to leave my house, and I was actually told by the police, who I called to have him removed, that since he had lived in my house for more than 2 years, he was just as entitled to live there as I was.
I was asked to leave my DD with my XP in my house and go somewhere else for the night myself.
I lost faith in the police after that tbh.

I eventually got rid of my XP when I called the police AGAIN and on the phone they agreed they'd remove him from my home, and reassured me that he would be leaving without DD, she would be left with me.
As it happens, when police arrived, they decided to let XP take DD to his parents, who were on their way to collect XP and DD, and then proceeded to blackmail me with only having DD back if I resumed my relationship with him.
Never!!!!!

I have lost all faith in the police since then. I have been single for 2 years now, thank goodness!!

My main problem was I was completely unaware of my rights, and that was my problem for a long long time. I didn't know the law, so assumed the police knew what they were talking about, assumed they had the power to evict me from my home so my XP could stay there.

meant XP blackmailed me, not police

My MIL has 8 children living at home, 2 of who are boys over the age of 16 so they won't be allowed in a womens refuge.

DH and I are the only family MIL has and of course we would never turn them away but I live in a 2 bedroom house. 12 people in a 2 bedroom house will work even less well than 9 in a 3 bedroom house.

All her money is tied up in the house which her partner refuses to sell so she would and has found it impossible to find alternative accomodation.

Council houses for families of 9 are impossible to come by and if she leaves her home then she has made herself voluntarily homeless and therefore doesn't qualify for a council house (or will at least be at the bottom of the list).

SS have told MIL that they would be reluctant to take the children anyway because they would find it difficult to find foster homes for all of them.

She has had legal advice but he can't be forced out of his own home. Unless he ends up in prison she can't see a way out.

If anyone else could suggest a way she could get out then I will gladly let her know.

Altinkum are you a social worker? What is your process for a DV case? Do you take into account the Mothers fear of losing her kids when dealing with her and the fact that it may just not be possible for her to get rid of the abuser easily. How do you help someone in a situation like that?

Would you tell someone that if you receive a call about them again then things will be "stepped up" with regards to your children? Is that a normal thing to say?

Thanks altinkum, excuse my ignorance but do you go to a solicitor for that?

Shiney, has she spoken to Women's Aid? Or you could speak to them on a fact-finding basis?

Just one thing to add, an abused woman's fear of leaving may be very reasonable indeed - a horrifying number of victims of DV are murdered after leaving an abuser, it can be a life-threatening choice.
So I'm sympathetic, but also agree that SS should remove the children if necessary.

I'm not sure, I know for a fact that she has been to a refuge in the past but they wouldn't let her stay because dh was 13 at the time so they were only allowed 1 night there (and only because she begged them).

He is less violent now because dh's brothers are now big and strong enough to stand up to him (they are 17 and 19 and still in college so can't move out) but the recent incidents have been where he has hit one of my BIL's who has been defending their mum. When the police turned up they realised it was dv and said that it would be better if it was sorted out within the family I think maybe because they just saw a fight between a step father and step son.

It's very sad because the youngest child is 6 now but when she was 3 she gave me a long speech about how naughty daddy was and how she thinks the police should take him away :(

Well, quite Dilys. And that's why the perpetrator should be removed, not the children. There was an endless debate on the Feminism board about this and yet I still don't understand why SS get enough evidence to remove the children, but the police don't have enough to charge the perpetrator. Well, I do understand why it's like that in law, but I don't agree with the stance. Property rights trump protection for victims, it seems.

3 is a lot if you ask me. SS should be involved straight away. I speak as a former child of DV. The police are rarely called anyway certainly not for every occurence and they need to keep that in mind

Sorry Shiny, xposted. Women's Aid should be able to give some ideas. Maybe you could ring them first? I loathe that abusers are not able to be removed and that the victims have to bring more chaos into their already chaotic lives.