Public sector - Pensions

[maisiejoe123]

AIBU - to get irritated by the public sector bleating that they are being picked on with regard to their final salary pension schemes and being asked to retire at 65 as opposed to 60.

Why are they any different from others? I would love to retire at 60 but my company has moved the retirement date to 65. The state pension age has also moved. I understand all of this and whilst I am not happy (dont want to chase my retirement!)I accept that things need to change.

And they plan to strike???

oo on the bright side! Free bus to work! (after 10 am of course)

I do accept that many people in the private sector are having a crap time. I know people who have been made redundant, my DH now no longer gets any overtime payment but still has to work the overtime. Though he still earns 2x as much as I do even though he's significantly less qualified and doesn't work as hard and has less responsibility. He still has a better pension than me as well.

But I think the majority of private sector workers are still doing very well - the highly paid bankers, lawyers, managers, etc. I think the same is also true of the upper levels of the public sector.

I do think a lot of what's happening at the minute is a devious govt campagign to create an image of public sector worker layabouts lording it over the private sector. They want there to be a backlash against them so they can make the cuts more easily. Its working well, the media have jumped on board and everyone is wading in.

Once they've finished with the public sector it'll be someone else's turn. Its all spin and the bloody Tories are laughing their heads off at us.

"The average female NHS worker walks away with the grand sum of £3500 pa pension - not exactly gold-plated in my opinion."

Agree it isn't gold-plated Georgie - but the point being made is that if that person retires at (say) 55 and lives for another 30 years, even £3.5k pa is going to need a large pension pot. Substantially larger than most people without the benefit of a NHS pension could afford.

I don't really see why the bankers are relevant. Letting the banks fail was not really an option, they were bailed out, a tiny percentage of people get stinking great bonuses.... that stinks too, but relevant? No.

'But I think the majority of private sector workers are still doing very well - the highly paid bankers, lawyers, managers, etc. I think the same is also true of the upper levels of the public sector.'

Those are the majority? Do you honestly believe that the majority of those working for hte entire private sector are doing very well?

Let's start a list:

call centre workers
cleaners
anyone who works for an agency - admin, catering/food
agricultural/farm workers
admin staff - secretaries, receptionist, mail room, etc.
food industry - waiters, chefs, kitchen staff, catering
allied health agency staff
care assistants/nursing home/care home staff
hotel/tourism - crap pay, shite hours
delivery/haulage services - yep, they're all rolling in the money, those drivers!
retail - there's a real goldmine of pay and good working conditions, folks!

Anyone want to add on with how well all these private sector workers are doing?

Because they make up a significant percentage of the working poor.

Lots of these jobs are physical. I can't think of anyone I know in such jobs who even has the money to invest in a pension at all, and their employer doesn't offer one.

The reason I no longer do any of those jobs in that list (though I have worked in a call centre and been an admin worker in the past) is because I went to uni, got a degree, a masters and a raft of professional qualifications.

I now work for the NHS, working shifts, XMAS day, etc. Physical work, facing patient abuse at times, making life and death responsibility decisions. If I'd stayed in the call centre I'd probably be a team leader by now and would be earning more money. Oh and I also had a final salary pension scheme when I worked in the call centre - I don't now. And I'm o na pay freeze for the next 3 years.

A lot of people with degrees work in such settings now, Viva, thanks to the recession and no, they don't have pensions just because you did. And no, not all of them will be team leader.

And guess what? A lot of them are not going to be willing to pay for you, me or anyone else to stop working at 55 or 60 and sit around for 30+ years drawing a pension.

Or they will be unable to.

So unless you or me win the lottery or an immensely wealthy long-lost relative dies and leaves us his fortune, reality is going bite in about 20 years.

The goal posts are changing because people are living longer.

That's how it is.

There is not and will not be the money for these pensions.

Firstly as far as I'm aware I can't draw my NHS pension till I'm 65. I know people who have worked for the NHS longer can retire at 55 or 60 but thats already changed.

In the private company I worked for everyone retired at 55. I'm not saying that all private sector workers are this fortunate but just trying to point out that its not as simple as public sector workers have fab pay/pensions and private sector workers don't. The majority of people I knwo in the private sector have better wages/pensions than me.

I already had a degree when I worked in the call centre as did most of my colleagues. I soon realised my degree was fairly useless so went and did another degree, one where I was actually qualified for a specific job at the end of it.

I know the goal posts are changing - they have already changed. This has affected me. I'm not complaining about it. I'm not complaining about my career average pension, though I am slightly worried about being phsically able to work till 65, though yes many physical private sector workers have the same worries. I think I'm more pissed off about the public sector bashing and the fact that people don't seem to realise that it has already chanegd for new starters - it chanegd 3 years ago!!!

But I do think its unfair to change the pension scheme for someone in their 50s. Especially when the NHS pension scheme is in credit by a significant sum.

My dh works in the public sector and his employer mandates that he retires at 53. No choice. He gets his full pension then. Hutton recommended that this be moved to 60-that's fine, as long as they continue to employ him til 60. He is on the closed old scheme for his employer, the new one that was introduced in 05 steps the rate at which you get your pension. That's because they hope you'll be dead before you get it in full.

Should add that dh is 50, so not a lot we can do at this point.

Viva you make an excellent point - it is all Tory spin aimed at dividing the country at all levels so they can get on with their idealogical cuts with little or not resistance.

which is why I get so angry when I read all these people buying into it in this way.

Public sector workers are under attack in all directions. In addition to being required to work longer public sector workers are to be made to contribute more towards their pensions (even though effectively they will recieve less) and most have had a wage freeze. Many have had wages cut. Services are being cut and people are having to work longer (often unpaid) hours to do the work of two or more people. Its hell in public services at the moment, and we know that its likely to get a lot worse.
So yes people are angry, but more than that, most people are just very worried about the future of the services as so many are folding.

Sorry public sector workers need to get real.

There is no many for these pensions,end of.

Life is shit for everybody at the moment. Most of us in the private sector have had pay freezes for far longer,have faced redundancies,do worthwhile jobs we've trained for,are not being being paid higher salaries when promoted,have far shittier pensions etc,etc.

Not really getting why the public sector's gold plated pensions should be funded at the expense of everybody else when there is no money and we're all in the same position.

What do you want, even more redundancies so just a very fortunate few give up nothing?

It's not the fact that I will have to work longer for less pension that annoys me, it's the fact that a contract seems only to be binding on one party - the worker, and not on the employer....

After all, I cannot unilaterally change the terms of my contract. It seems inequitable that my employer can.

But i contribute to my piss poor average salary nurses pension ,it is taken out of my wage every month and out of my maternity pay whilst i was on maternity too , oh and i will be wrestling with psychotic alcholics when im 67 , so yes im a teensy bit peeved ,which may come across as bleating!

Dont forget the lowest common denominator principle ,if they screw us ,they can screw all the private sector workers even more ,so be warned .

did they say that they were going to decimate public services in their manifesto?

well said thebird and viva - btw, I believe the govt had some sort of vote a few years ago to protect their extortionate pensions. Methinks they won't be having their T&Cs changed like we are.

also agree with tazmosis - people also seem to be unaware that changes are being made to redundancy packages int he public sector, as you describe.

So were being screwed everey which way - if we manage to keep our jobs, there are no pay rises, more pension contributions to pay, longer hours being worked, having to work later in life and then receiving less in pension payouts - sorry, that probably consitutes bleating.....OP?

And I'm not blinkered about the need to increase pensionable age but if we all stay in work until 65+ what jobs are the school/uni leavers going to do?

"people also seem to be unaware that changes are being made to redundancy packages int he public sector"

redundancy packages are not usually part of your Ts&Cs.
There is a legal minimum which you should get, but don't expect people in the private sector to give you a wedge of cash if the job you chose no longer exists.

I think you have ever cut the socks off a tramp that had his skin grow into the material, had knives pulled out on you, been kicked in the back/stomach, spat and sworn at, threatened with 'I'm going to get you when you finish work'(this one by the way was when I was 7 months pregnant!), back ache from doing your work, resuscitated babies and young people and then watched them die, work damn hard to save the lives of young soldiers and locals in Afghan plus pay tax and N.I. and also pay into your pension........then you'd want a decent pension tbh. The dogs body public sector workers do not have huge pensions!

without a decent pension would YOU be a prison officer, teach in a tough inner-city high school, be a PC on a dangerous estate..?

For most of these jobs a secure pension fund is the 'only' perk.

Myself and DH will now have an unexpected extra £200/month to pay out in pension + losing child benefit for 2DC.

We feel we have been completely screwed over. We are not the cause of the recession.

Yes, yes I would. Because I don't come from a place where you do not expect to retire in your early or mid-50s and swan around for 30+ years without working unless you are very very wealthy and/or lucky.

It's just not sustainable for any society.

The writing's on the wall for that because the harsh fact of the matter is that people are living much longer than they used to when the system was designed.

'We feel we have been completely screwed over. We are not the cause of the recession.'

People living longer are the cause of the pensions crisis.

Even a healthy economy cannot sustain 25%+ of its adult population not working and, in all likelihood, developing more and more expensive health problems.

Sorry, I come from a place where you don't expect to retire in your early or mid-50s.

Yes, interestingly MP's excluded their(final salary) pension scheme from the Hutton Review...

What a surprise!