Public sector - Pensions

[maisiejoe123]

AIBU - to get irritated by the public sector bleating that they are being picked on with regard to their final salary pension schemes and being asked to retire at 65 as opposed to 60.

Why are they any different from others? I would love to retire at 60 but my company has moved the retirement date to 65. The state pension age has also moved. I understand all of this and whilst I am not happy (dont want to chase my retirement!)I accept that things need to change.

And they plan to strike???

Ultimately the patients will suffer if conditions dont improve for nurses so its a hollow gesture in some ways.

Recent salary comparisons have shown that it is no longer true to say that salaries are lower in the public sector and that is why the time is now ripe to reform pension benefits.

If the government don't do it now, when there are fewer than ever private job vacancies for the disaffected public sector to apply for, then they will have missed a huge window of opportunity.

I think therefore that they will battle on in order to reduce the burden on ALL tax payers of funding the public sector worker's pensions.

If the senior public sector workers hadn't taken the piss with their retirement packages and early retirement ages then the lower paid workers may not have had to suffer.

I thought the recent pay comparisons showed that if you compare by level of qualification, then public sector workers are paid less than private?

solicitor

If the government hadn't deregulated the banks, they wouldn't have been able to take the piss either.

And surely it could be argued that we all pay everyone's pensions? If you work in a shop, the goods you sell are priced to include the staff's salaries and the compulsory element of their pension contribution?

If you pay privately for your health cover, some of the fee pays the nurses pension?

1. The average public sector pension is £4,000 a year - not exactly gold plated.*

True - but

1. To get that in a private pension would need a fund somewhere north of £70K - so not many private sector EEs are likely to be getting even that.

Really we shouldn't be bickering about who is being ripped off a few quid more than whom - we should be kicking down the doors of government and big business and asking why it's always us ordinary folks that end up paying for everything.

Most of the people I went to school with were earning a fortune during the high times, buying nice houses and lovely new cars. I had a vocation and didnt mind clearing up bodily fluids and being exposed to drug resistant diseases and being threatened for low pay. I could have got a job where I earned a ton of money, I didnt. The one thing I had was that I wouldnt be poor in my old age. Dont worry, I will still look after the homeless, the disabled and the vulnerable. Unless there is no money for that. In which case, get used to people begging in doorways again.

I am a public sector worker with no right to strike. I have always worked shifts through the night and will work whatever hours needed. I don't claim the overtime and its written into my contract that I have to give half an hour for free before I can claim but I have to have it authorised in advance. I am regularly injured in some way in work. I pay 11% of my pay each month into my 'gold plated pension' so I can retire at 55 because I and other people in my job know that my job causes you to be more likely to have a reduced life expectancy with a chance of long running health problems. My pay has been frozen I get no perks. The recommendation is that I have to increase what I pay in for less benefit having worked longer. The government are suggesting that people in my job take a pay cut as well. I love my job and do it well but it is disheartening when you get no support. No real wonder with all the press reports at the moment constantly smearing public sector workers.

I wont get a pension as such as I have only been in the pension scheme 3 years. And I will be made redundant soon. So not much there either. Difficult decision to lose a days pay.
wonders if this should be in the other strike thread

I am a nurse of 20 years in the NHS.

I have never ever been paid overtime, if I work late I have to try and claw the time back at a later date at the discretion of line manager.

There is NO WAY I am working until 65. I will resign at 60 years and live on the breadline.

I will now be far less inclined to remain in the NHS when looking for my next career move. I believe working conditions and staffing levels in general practice and private health care are much better, and sadly, plenty of my colleagues feel the same.

The media have a lot to answer for constantly bleating on about public sector pay and civil service fat cats. It seems there is a constant campagin to get the public behind their drive for cuts and its creating an Public V Private division.

We are all free to make different career choices. Each job has its difficulties and rewards and no two can be compared. People choose to work in the public sector for various reasons but I am sure that job security and pension benefits are high on the list. People choose to work in the private sector for the other benefits this provides (sharesave, bonus schemes, travel, private pension, BUPA etc.) that is their choice. It is not fair to move the goal posts half way through someones career! Do we really want 65 year old nurses, teachers, police, firemen? Can you see a 65 copper on the beat chasing young thugs? It also has a knock on effect on recruitment as less people will be retiring so less new people will be recruited.

I am not in the public sector but feel they are an easy target for the government and public. Ok look at changing the scheme for new members but dont change benefits for those who have made their choice and worked hard in public service. After all we depend on these people!

Firstly I wish people would stop lumping all public sector pensions together. The different careers have very different pensions.

I work for the NHS. I don't have a final salary scheme as I joined 3 years ago but a career average one. So this has already been changed for new starters. However I have read in several places that the NHS pension fund is very much in credit and provides teh govt with a huge interest free loan. So yes if its in credit then I think its a bit shit to cut the payouts.

I think its shit to change terms and conditions of peoples jobs when they're already signed up. If you had a job no matter what sector then you'd be pissed off if halfway through your career they said you had to pay more contributions but get less and retire later. Don't pretend you wouldn't.

Its not that long ago that the media and public were supporting nurses, etc saying they have a crap wage, etc. I always thought that wages were low for qualifications/responsibility but the pension made up for this.

When I'm still working as a midwife at 65 please don't come onto the labour ward expecting an active birth. If you think I'll be on my hands and knees catching baby while you stand/kneel/squat you can forget it. On your back, on the bed and stay there thankyou very much. I won't be faffing about with active birth when I'm elderly.

BTW- the most important question here is surely what is happening to MP's pensions? Are they leading by example and stopping their final salary schemes? I don't know if they are but somehow I doubt it. Makes me mad.

Do people think that "public sector workers" don't pay any tax? Why is it always 'us tax payers' v's 'the public sector' as if we aren't tax payers' as well.

Does no one care that it's us public sector workers who are teaching your kids or giving you your heart bypasses or putting out your houses when they are on fire or giving up their lives to fight for your country. Quit vilifying us and blaming us for the economic crisis and start thinking about the actual people who you are bitching about and what they do for you. Maybe even consider supporting them and making them feel valued.

What if there's no money to pay for those pensions and that's why they're being changed?

What is supposed to happen, more money magicked up?

The retirement age has to move because people are living longer and retirement was never designed to last 30-odd years or more on average. NO society can susttain that.

The goalposts have to change because things have changed.

I've been on strike as a teacher waaay back in the mists of time.
More effective was working to rule, because that highlighted the responsibilities and tasks we were paid for and the unpaid additional extras.
Which in turn helped parents realise where the expectations of the job ended, and where our goodwill began.
I've been teaching almost 30 years and the job has changed beyond recognition numerous times.
I will be annoyed if in my last decade of the job, they change the rules to penalise me one more time before I escape.

VivalaBeaver

Of course people in the private sector would be pissed off if halfway through their career the terms and conditions of their pension scheme changed. Perhaps however you were out of the country and completely missed all the hoo hah in the financial and ordinary press over the last 5 years as private sector employer after employer closed their final salary schemes.

My H and all his work colleagues were simply informed that the pension fund would be unable to pay out previously stated benefit levels unless the employees increased their monthly contributions. Sure, they had a choice, pay more of their net pay into the pension fund or accept that they would suffer a reduction in pension levels at retirement

My private pension value has dropped to the same level as it was 5 years ago due to the recession, it may take years to recover so early retirement plans would be foolish on my part. Is yours affected by the economic climate ? Oh no, it's a guaranteed amount so if investment values drop it must be being topped by the employer=government=all of us, public and private sector workers.

Did the relentless news headlines over the last 2 years of the economic downturn in respect of job losses, pay freezes/reductions and benefit package removals escape the public sector worker's notice because it was only in the private sector ? Is it only now that the knock on effect of the recession is to start affecting all areas of the public sector that the job insecurity/pay decreases/benefit package cuts matter ?

We in the private sector have either had to increase our contributions or plan for a less comfortable retirement only then to be hit with tax/NI rises to partially fund the gap in the national spending needs, which in turn partially funds public sector pensions.

We all need the services provided by our public sector workers but surely it is wrong of them to hold us to ransom just because they provide an essential service and can bring the UK to the brink of a something horrendous if they choose to unite in industrial action.

I will have to work till I'm 67...67..3 years off 70??...has anyone actually thought this through?...

just because you live longer does not mean you are well enough to work at the same pace...or will I be sacked using the attendance management process?..

what will happen to the younger employees?..no hope of advancement till everyone dies off?..

things have changed but this has not been thought out at all...just another knee-jerk reaction and blame game moment...

what makes me laugh is most of the people I see openly say to me 'I couldn't do your job'...Ha!

vivalbeaver - its exactly whats happened to me - the pension i signed up for has changed - i will get less and it will be paid out later. but i accept that because it was either that or they closed the pension entirely and to be honest i feel lucky that i have a company pension at all.

under these circumstances i object to stumping up lots of money to cover public sector pensions if they are excessively generous. If they only changed the pensions of new joiners it would take about 30 years for anything to change significanlty and by then the country would be broke - or at least the public would.

solicitor the public/private sector job comparison isn't that simple. Jobs which have been contracted out to the private sector (eg cleaning) skew things, for a start.

I am pretty pissed off about public sector pensions.

Maybe something should be done about private sector pensions being absolute shit unless you're at the top of the tree. No, instead the government wants to drag ordinary works down to the same low level (while retaining their brilliant pensions, I bet).

The unions don't have a problem with changing the pensions, but given that the government is showing no compassion then too right they should strike.

Op, YABU for all the very good reasons others have listed.

Op, you sound like an uninformed idiot who has no idea what you are talking about.

I have worked for a central gov dept for 28 years - they are now telling me that they have halved the redundancy pay I would be entitled to, by retrospectively changing the law.

I have a pay freeze that lasts 3 years - June 10 until June 13.

My salary has always been lower than private sector equivalents due to my non contributory pension. Well, it is going to become contributory - up to 8% over the next few years. The final salary scheme will end and I will get an average instead. I will also have to work 7 years longer to get it - FYI 67 not 65 as you incorrectly and ignorantly quoted.

If I worked in the private sector my terms and conditions would be legally binding to my employer - they wouldn't be able to conveniently restrospectively change the law to get out of their obligations.

Central gov Public Sector employees have accepted salaries that are lower than private sector equivalents because of their terms and conditions which have now been illegally taken from them. (ruled by the high court).

Oh, and for the record our non contributory, final salary pension scheme was closed to new entrants approx 8 years ago, this is now taking promised benefits off long serving staff, who would have planned differently 28 years ago had we known the goal posts were going to be moved so drastically.

So yes you are being bloody unreasonable, as well as inflammatory and ignorant.

OP - you are not being unreasonable, inflammatory or ignorant IMHO.

The money has run out.

Retiring at 55 (even at £4k a year) requires a pension pot substantially larger than the average employee in the private sector could afford. Maybe it would be different if Brown hadn't raided private sector pensions, but he did. Yes, it stinks if it affects you but there is no sensible alternative.

Actually lurking if you bothered to read the pages and pages of information out there - not the propaganda but impartial facts, you would find that the costs of public sector pensions has peaked and is now dropping. And was totally affordable. This is yet another ConLib idealogy.

And by the way, you're just as ignorant. Reading The Daily Mail, Daily Express or The Sun does not make you a Public Sector Pension expert.

But dreamingofsun - the NHS pension fund is not in the same position that it sounds like your private sector pension fund was. Like I stated the NHS pension pot is very much in credit. There is more coming in every year than is being paid out. As this is the case I don't think its fair to cut it. What happens to the ever increasing pot of money thats accumulated?