To feel as if I don't fit in anywhere

[Splogeandbodge]

I have plenty of friends, but I always feel like a fraud, as if I'll get "found out". Have to work really hard to know what to say to people, never feel natural and feel as if friendship is completely learnt behaviour for me, never instinctive. And felt really paranoid when didn't get invited to a school event last week. Feel terrified I'll end up like my family, my parents haven't really got many real friends who rely on them and vice versa. Don't know what I'm saying really, maybe that I'm worried that I'm a social misfit who's going to get found out.

I too feel like this. I have only just realised it is to do with childhood. Parents divorced when very young, lived with Dad and didn't have good relationship with mum, then went to 4 different primary schools!

I do have a small circle of friends, but it has taken me years to actually think they like me and aren't just putting up with me. My DH is my best friend

That is interesting, QLB, because I have wondered myself if my insecurities are partly to do with my poor relationship with my Mum. I never felt that she liked me and that has contributed to low self esteem and in turn to not believing that others truly like me.

Really interesting all this. I have been lots better since cbt style counselling, not specifically for social issues, just has changed my way of responding to negative thoughts in general. Just had a panic today that what I'd been telling myself, that even confident people prob feel nervous and don't know "the rules" either might not be true! Here's a for instance of me having to learn how friendship works rather than it being instinctive: friend confides in me that she's feeling rubbish at the moment. We have long chat about it then off we go. My problem, trivial as it seems is I don't know whether next time I see her I ask about it again or let it lie. Don't want to seem as if I've forgotten but equally, if she's moved on and feels better then don't want to rake it all up. I had to learn how to treat bereaved people too-it seemed counter intuitive to go ahead and do something, seemed logical to ask what's needed. And I avoid actual gossip or talking about people like the plague. Other people seem able to do it without tipping over into gratuitousness, I really have to watch myself. I think I generally do an okay job at it all, but it's the never quite knowing what to do that gets me. I want a rule book !!!

tbh for me it wasn't about self esteem. It really was learning about how to make and keep friends as an adult.

To OP don't know any books to recommend. Do you have someone close to you who can guide you?

It is small things that seem obvious now, but just didn't occur to me. Like if I met a friend who was down, my OH encouraged me to phone a few days later and see how they were. Wouldn't have occurred to me.

I'm the same, even though i've got good friends and colleagues, i've often felt lonely and paranoid. It's only now that i'm seeing a psychologist for BPD that i feel better about myself. I realise that as long as i'm nice and a good person to others, and i accept myself as i am then that's the most important thing. I know certain people do bitch - but there's not much i can do except rise above it.
Also even confident types can be secretly anxious.
It is harder to make friends when your parents didn't have friends - my sister and i both had this problem. We've both had to learn the hard way that you shouldn't act like a doormat to keep friends / partners, and you mustn't compromise your safety or self-respect to 'fit in'. Just learn to be happy in yourself (often difficult) and you will naturally become the person that others want to fit in with.

applauds this thread!!! I want to write more but sooo tired gotta go bed. methinks I'll pop in tomorrow and chew the fat seriously on this thread. hugs op -sod it, mn is getting huggy (but not in a netmums way AT ALL)

I've always had this problem. Partly natural weirdness , partly bad timing in conversation, partly that the so-called obvious ways of doing things aren't obvious to me!

Having thought for some time that my father had Aspergers, am now pretty cetain that I have it - the female version, with more empathy, and an ability to learn friend skills, up to a point.

I had very bad social skills as a teenager and into my very early twenties (24 now so only a couple years ago). Uni changed this for me with the constant socialising and meeting new people. Maybe just getting out there more will bring out some natural friendly abilities in you.

Even now I feel like you do, even with friends I have had for the past few years, but it is getting better. My DP has commented on it before too, he has never had a problem like that so doesn't quite get it. It is probably because I didn't get to do the normal socializing things children do when they are younger, but I'm learning now. It is an insicurity for me when I am talking to people and it can get a bit OTT but as I said, I am sure more exposure to people and getting involved with social activiies will help.

After reading this thread, I now realise I am not so unusual in a way. Could never imagine other people having this problem so feel a little relieved now.

(God, that grin emoticon freaks me out!)

Working with the public improves your small-talk skills - or could do voluntary eg making teas at a hospital once a week?
When making small talk, don't ask people personal questions unless they volunteer info first, instead talk about general stuff. Use 'open' questions which demand more than a one word answer. Eg 'what do u think of living here?' rather than 'do u like living here?' Make a genuine compliment on something the other person is wearing or on their haircut (can lead to chat about shops, hairdressers eg), and remember something the person says that you can ask about next time.
If you want to meet up again without seeming pushy try saying 'Me and DH are having a takeaway friday night, do pop round if u like. But text first - here's my number'.
I find having people round stressful so i don't do dinner parties, and my friends are happy with tea + cakes or crisps + dips!
I hate being in big groups too so i try to identify several people i know to chat to briefly in turn.
I do feel more confident in fashionable clothes, with nice hair and make up. It's shallow but people do judge you on appearance initially...

Ah, good thread!
MS- I have come to the conclusion I have AS recently, and suddenly lots of things have fallen into place.
Lesley- yes the thing about not realising you'd need to check later how someone was... exactly right, and makes friendships so very difficult.

think most people feel like this at some point in their life,got a great qoutation sent to me when i was having a wobble"once you realise we,re all mad,life starts to make sense",.i say it. to myself anytime i get that feeling,big hug to you op.x

See, outwardly I am one of the confident chatty types (I'll speak to anyone, drives DH mad!) but then I go home and over-analyse what I said- was I too chatty? What did they mean when they said X? Do they dislike me?

I have lots of acquaintances, but not many friends that I could call, for example, at 2am. I worry about being too friendly, so sometimes keep people at arm's length For example, I recently met up with a friend I hadn't seen in years- she came to the house and we got on really well- the years fell away. I plied her with wine, keen to be a good hostess, and she was happy to accept, but then she got drunk and ill and I felt terrible! Sure she won't want to see me again (out of embarrassment) and I feel like I spoiled it!

Even those people who seem confident and chatty worry!

Sorry for long post.

I may be wrong, but I really think some of the posters here are talking about different things from the OP.

Everyone gets shy sometimes - unless they are very arrogant. Lots of people have low self esteem. And having aspergers must make social situations tough. And I think lots of people don't have someone they could ring at 2am. Doesn't make your friends mere acquantances though IMO.

But I think the OP is talking about the skills you need to make and keep friends. I honestly think for people whose parents had lots of friends, the skills are more instinctive. I think they can be learn't as an adult, but is harder.

I don't know of any books sadly. But things I have learned include:

• Let friendships evolve at their own pace and don't try and rush things. So may be a few weeks or a month until you meet up again. And if you have initiated the last few meets then wait for the other person to initiate as well.
• Don't near the beginning set up big social things e.g. I would invite people round and make a posh meal. Start with casual things e.g. meet up for coffee or come round and share a pizza.
• Don't over analyse every remark you or friend made.

• If friend was down or upset last time you met, then next time ask how things are e.g. how are things with you and OH? But let them dodge the question if they want to.
• Don't try and make a friendship what it isn't. So some friends will never be really close, but are based more round things you do or have in common e.g. ante natal group. Accept them for what they are and that they may not last.

• Give up the idea of a best friend as you might have had in primary school.
• Everyone can be grumpy, sad at times so forgive and forget if a friend makes a grumpy or insensitive remark. Obviously different if this is a general pattern of behaviour.

• Some people are takers - try and identify them and don't become their friends.
• Offer friends help and then give it. And ask for help in return. Nobody decent wants to accept help if they don't ever get a chance to reciprocate.

Op hope this helps. I honestly find it much easier now and feel that things are more instinctive now.

Wow, finding this thread is such a relief! Reading your post Splogeandbodge is as though I'd written it myself! I have felt like this for as long as I can remember and always feel 'fake' or indeed a misfit. I have rare days where I feel more sociable and can manage a small get together but I find myself secretly dreading it while other friends appear so eager to get together. I run from meeting new people if possible and always feel 'safer' in my own company. I've tried so hard to overcome these anxieties but I just find it all so exhausting

Lesley- spot on! In fact lots of the things you've written are things I've learnt over the years. And I get better at it the more I go on. I remember back in uni how i always visited one friend with an excuse, ie something I needed to find out, bring back etc. She eventually said, you can just come you know! I think that although really constantly needy people can bring you down, it us your little foibles that make you endearing to people. So whilst they want to rely on you for fun and support, they don't mind a few vulnerabilities. Someone invincible is unapproachable. I am learning slowly that people do find me wise and funny (makes me wince to write it). I just always feel I have to watch what I'm saying a bit because of the learnt nature of any skill I have with friends. And then I have moments of crashing insecurity- might have had to batten down the hatches a bit at home so seen people less. Or just will say something stupid and panic that that's it, all my friend's will disappear. Or that thing where you have to accept a friendship moving on for some reason. But I generally manage okay. Just want to know it's nit just me who has to really work at it.

It really isn't just you who has to work at it. Its sad that there isn't advice out there. There is lots of advice about how to have a good marriage/relationship, but none about making friends.

I think you are right that people accept our foibles. So I know I can be really tactless at times - not deliberately though. My friends just laugh when I do this and tease me jokingly about it.

I feel sad when I look back at my teenage years and wish I had the skills I do now. I had a small number of friends - mainly boys - who I think were easier to be friends with. And I had a tendency in teenage and early adult years to be friendly with needy people and takers.

But I honestly have found it easier as I have got older. As you have friends you have obviously got some skills there. My brother, who is married with kids, has no friends at all - just like my dad.

I totally understand where you're coming from. My parents never had many friends, I also had a tricky relationship with my mum and was bullied at school.

Fast forward 30 odd years, and to the outside world, I am (very) chatty, confident, funny (apparently!) and sociable. I also have somehow managed to obtain and keep a large group of amazing friends...but somehow, I'm never convinced that I really deserve them.

I overanalyse texts, emails, conversations..yet I am certain that everyone (barr OH) would be shocked if they knew this. For me, it's at it's worst after a night on the drink. If I go out and drink to the point that I don't remember conversations etc (not very frequently these days), I'll fret about it for literally months- convincing myself that I may have said/done something which will lead people to stop liking me. Despite evidence to the contrary, I just cannot get these haunting thoughts out of my mind.

You are not alone- we're all a bit odd in our own little way!

Sorry to hear that baggypussy. Don't know how you can stop doing this as you clearly are good at making and keeping friends.

I have a friend who does what you do. I find I have to be so careful what I say to her as she can so easily be hurt by remarks that she misinterprets.

Gosh, splogeandbodge, thanks for starting this thread (in a good way).

I always find it very difficult to talk to people, even sometimes ones that I've known for ages. I am hopeless at just having a conversation, I really do struggle to keep a conversation going.

I hate going a long to say toddler groups and making polite conversation. I find some people just talk a load of nonsense! I love doing lots of things on my own so I can please myself eg shopping.

So I always feel so fake having to make conversation.

I feel the same way, I don't want to be unsociable and I do like company in theory, just find in practice interacting with people is difficult and stressful! Actually with someone I know well and on a subject that interests me I can talk a lot, but general small-talk and conversation is difficult.

My parents never had friends or any kind of social life, so suppose I never really learned about how social interactions work because no one was modelling that for me. DP is a bit socially awkward as well, though interestingly his parents and the rest of his family are very sociable people. You can learn this stuff, but it doesn't come naturally to all of us...

But I guess the message is that there are a lot of us who have learnt the skills they need. Just had a lovely morning with friends, some closer than others and I was thinking about the things I used to do that I don't do now. I don't apologise half as much as I used to for starters. And I express opinions, but not as much or as strongly. But the bottom line is mostly I don't constantly analyse-just sometimes. So for all that this stuff is learnt and not natural, I think I do all right! Til the next panic....

Baggypussy, cbt has really helped me with the overanalyses. Has kind of taught myself to tell myself off for it and to push it aside iyswim. Works mostly although felt very weird and as if I was sort of trying to kid myself out of the negative thoughts. Didn't have it for friendship stuff, was mire because was being very perfectionist and hard on myself after ds born. But has helped with so many things.