To think breast fed babies are more intellegent

[thecatamongthepidgeons]

Because their parents tend to be more intellegent not because they were breast fed?
More intellegent parents are more likely to choose to breast feed regardless of any dificulties they face if they think it will benefit their children.

boosmummie - so how should we discuss this issue? Given that a forum like this is really intended for robust debate?

I'm massively struggling with my children's education at the moment and reading comments from people on mumsnet about how brilliant their children's schools are and how well their children are doing academically makes me feel inadequate and guilty. Why don't I earn enough to pay for a private school? Why didn't I tutor my oldest so she might have stood a chance of getting into the school her cousins went to (and are very happy at) instead of the crap school she's currently desparate to leave?

But I don't think that's a good argument for expecting people to censor their comments about the advantages of grammar schools/private schools, or the problems with many comps.

Life is tough. We can't all do what we want to do for our children. It's still not right to blame other people for our negative feelings about the things that go wrong in our lives, unless we feel they are deliberately saying things in order to hurt and diminish us.

I think a lot of mums on these boards feel very persecuted about their decision not to/inability to breastfeed. But I don't think there's evidence of intentional unkindness or persecution. I don't think the OP was intending primarily to hurt with her post.

"More intelligent or more educated?"

Both actually.

This was one of the problems that researchers had with earlier research into IQ and breastfeeding.

Some studies have controlled for social class and education.

Other studies have controlled for social class, education and maternal IQ.

"Two totally different things..."

Not totally different.

There is a strong correlation.

Surely her argument is the same one used to make people feel better when they can't breastfeed...ie it isn't the breastfeeding itself that makes kids more intelligent? How can that opinion be used both to mollify and offend?

YABU.
You are entitled to your opinion.
I am entitled to think it is a bunch of bollocks.
You obviously haven't met my 2 fabulously intelligent FF DCs.

The product of 2 fabulously intelligent parents.
Double

i wos brest fed and i am well clevver

im a yooinversitie lecthurur

I think people are only reading the title and not the whole op, am totally.confused as to what has sparked such vitriol.

bibbity, I haven't supported the OP at all - quite the contrary - simply that her assertion that intelligence is more likely to be related to other factors than milk is a bit bloody obvious, and therefore controlled for.

And actually, if you read the OP carefully, it isn't so innocuous - "More intellegent parents are more likely to choose to breast feed regardless of any dificulties they face if they think it will benefit their children" - reversed, so if you struggled to bf and gave up, you're not as intelligent, and also correlating intelligence with selfless parenting. Both of which are bollocks and cruel, even if the premise of the difference of a couple of IQ points making a difference were true. And, has been pointed out, the correlation between breastfeeding and higher socio-economic status is not universal, so it's crap on many levels, and would obviously wound people feeling fragile.

Now, while I agree that you can't always avoid hurting people's feelings when doing/reporting research, you'd better have a damn good reason/foundation which the OP most assuredly dosn't.

I have read the whole OP, Ninky. It's bollocks.

Agree with Habbibu completely.

and the OP isn't hurtful, it's laughable.

i think there has been research to suggest that bf may affect the brain so thats good,however to suggest that people who dont bf are less intelligent is a little strange.I am intelligent but have suffered from breast cancer so cant feed so i think people need to carefull with generalisations about this and other things.

If the lastest evidence points to a correlation between breastfeeding and brain development (see research posts above etc), what's the point in denying it? Seems a bit mad to me.

Why is it wrong to say that bfing is best when it clearly is?

Not everyone can/wants to bfeed, but that doesn't change the truth.

Spud that I don't know. I think the majority are aware of the fact that BF is probably better for the baby in regards to nutrition and anti bodies blah blah blah, however, what saddens me is the way BF nazis seemingly refuse to accept those of us that made our choice to FF or mix or whatever did so for reasons that suit us.

My 3 older DCs went to (admittedly) an excellent state primary in London. I have stated on other threads that I was one of very few parents who did NOT have tutors for my children and I was actually appalled at those who did prior to Yr 2 SATs, let alone the Yr 6 ones.

The big ones are boarders, but they are at a STATE boarding school, which has 1200 pupils, maybe 200 are boarders, so the costs are very minimal, but with fantastic rewards. I did go to a private, all girls boarding school, but this was necessity as I was a forces child and would have gone to a new school every couple of years which is hardly conducive to a stable eduction. I went at 12 having been to 9 schools already....I don't know how old your DD is, but I do sympathise enormously with you on schools, several of my friends have been through the same trials (in London) with their DCs over the past 6 years.

I did feel persecuted to a degree when I was FF DD2, but in the end I just flipped at one stupid sanctimonious woman and told her to fuck off. Incidentally, said woman's child of same age is a monumental fuck up at 16, having been kicked out excluded from 2 'very nice' private schools.

It isn't deemed to be on MN though Habbibu, hence my confusion at the reaction here. The opinion is often touted to rapturous approbation when people try to say that breastfeeding itself helps improve IQ. Numerous people always come back and say "ah no, it is just because of the demographic of your average breastfeeder" or words to that effect. It is seen as mollifying, making those who can't breastfeed feel better. But on this thread it is being seen as offensive. Do you see what I mean?

There have been studies that show that bf babies tend to have higher IQs. That is a fact unfortunately. So you can put this down to one of 2 things...

Either:

• The demographic of its parents. I don't just include iq in that.
• The act of breastfeeding itself.

Which is it? Someone will be offended by either, doesn't mean that neither are true.

Hully, that's not the point - the OP wasn't simply reporting research (and it's a few IQ points, so hardly earth-shattering) - she was saying more intelligent people breastfeed against the odds because they want to do what's best for their children (implying that if you don't you're a bit thick, basically). And that's bollocks.

boos - please don't use the term BF Nazis. People may be over-zealous, sure, but Nazi isn't a word to be used lightly.

Also - again - they correct for socio-economic class, which she appears to have missed.

I know, Habb.

But over all, breast is best for all sorts of reasons. I was thinking more in general about why it isn't ok to say so, not just on this partic thread.

"There have been studies that show that bf babies tend to have higher IQs. That is a fact unfortunately. So you can put this down to one of 2 things...

Either:

• The demographic of its parents. I don't just include iq in that.
• The act of breastfeeding itself."

But they CORREECT for demographic! Seriously, I have said this again and again, so it's b. It's not massively relevant, as it's a few points. But Ninky - don't you see the bit where she basically says "if you're clever, you'll breastfeed despite struggling as you want to do the best for your children"? That's what's really bollocks, coupled with the OP's lack of understanding of research.

The Op clearly wasn't bfed - not with that "d" in pigeons.

FFS all you people defensively spouting on about how intelligent you and your FF kids are - the OP is agreeing with you! (however, it would seem intelligence doesn't appear to be linked with an ability to read) :o

That's a more interesting point, I think, Hully. It's a very emotive topic - whether that's universal I don't know, but I imagine so. And if you look at some of the individual reasons the difference in effect is quite small - the global effect much higher overall, though, I suppose.

Rap accepted Habbibu, I don't wish to offend with that. Sorry.

No, she's not, Mary. She's saying that if you were intelligent you'd breastfeed, basically...