to disagree with dh who thinks calling a product for thick curly hair 'R & B' is racist

[Petticoatsandviolets]

'Lush' have a conditioning product targeted at those with afro hair that I was thinking of trying out on dd's mixed race hair, as it gets so dry. When I told dh (black)the product's name, R & B, he became incensed and duly informed me he'd chuck it out if I ever bought it! He's of the opinion the name and association of R & B music with afro hair's racist and stereotypical. I'd actually really like to try it out on her hair, and not sure if I agree with him, athough I do understand his sensitivity.

What do you think?

I'm sorry but this is a non-issue, in my opinion. I have no right to tell him what he cannot be offended by, but in a world of profound and deadening discrimination my opinion is that if he is offended by this he is self-absorbed.

Probably Worra, he doesnt do these things by halves :o

Ahhh all is right in the world then Bogey!

To all saying that he's over-reacting: If you're not black, why are you so concerned to tell a black man how he should feel about something.

All is right in his world, but I need yet another pg induced wee, so mine could become a world of tears when I go up there! :o

If he doesn't want you to use the product, tell him he needs to come up with a better reason why not, or he can start the daily struggle with her hair! My Mum would sympathise, she had the struggle with my curly frizzy hair for years while I was a child. (Mine is more arab than afro though, but still very hard to control!)And specialist afro products are great, I often go into afro hairdressers for stuff, and I'm white.

I do think the R&B thing was intentional by Lush btw, Revive and balance are just the two random words they chose to fit.

And I agree that it is more about stereotyping than racism.

That makes sense charitygirl (not!) so from now on, we can only give a YABU or a YANBU if we are in exactly the same situation as the person asking?

I'll let MNHQ know they'll have to close down due to total lack of replies

I'm not telling him anything. He can feel how he likes. And neither he, nor anyone here, can tell me how to feel about that.

How does it undermine "real" cases of anything?

Your DH is entitled to be offended by it if he feels that way. But perhaps he should take it up with Lush's marketing department. If you have already bought some then it does seem silly to waste it. I'm ethically opposed to nestle but if someone bought me a kit kat I'd still eat it rather than waste it.

Heh heh. What about the Dumb Blonde range by Tigi? I'm surprised no-one has kicked off about that yet.

Poncey I'll have you know that "Coming to America" was not an awful film. It was incredible. Soulll Glo.....!

While I wasn't outraged I did wonder what R&B stood for and why they called it that. But as its revive and balance then it makes sense and that's ok, not sure how happy I would have been had it been called r&b without standing for something like that though.

As it is, it sounds completely innocent to me and people with afro-caribbean hair and not the only ones this product is targeted at, I'd try it for my dry curly hair too

"I do think the R&B thing was intentional by Lush btw, Revive and balance are just the two random words they chose to fit."

Of course.

But isn´t stereotyping also offensive?

Great reply worraliberty - i agree there is no difference between racism, and any other AIBU topic. After all, we're all people of colour here, right? Oh no, wait.

Reminds self to STEP AWAY from threads about race

Oh for goodness sake why has the world turned so serious and offended at everything lately?

Revive and Balance...Rhythm and Blues. What a great play on initials for advertising!

The product is not exclusive to black people and nor is the music...Jeez!

I think I get where he is coming from, being the proud owner of multi heritage hair myself

It is racial stereotyping but on a milder scale. It is associating R&B (rythm & blues) music, a product of African/ Carribean culture, with afro hair.

The owner of Reggae Reggae sauce does it too and that makes him clever at marketing but I do wonder if his background gives him more right, as it were, to utilise such marketing. I think it can be seen differently when it is done by a big corporation that has no links to African/ Carribean culture to begin with.

I am not Asian but I find that new ad about creating an Asian masterpiece (cannot remember who makes it) in minutes reduces the image of some of the worlds most amazing artwork to something we relate to as a novelty, it devalues its legitimacy as serious art. I think the tag line is something like "An Asian masterpiece can take years, or minutes", cutting from a girl seriously working on a piece of art to someone making a jarred sauce of sweet and sour sauce. Its like this other culture can be bottled and treated as a marketing gimmick, or novelty.

Thats might be how your DP is taking it. I wouldn't buy R&B for the same reasons, the association between thick curly hair and a cultural art of expression would put me off. I am not uptight about it, if someone bought it for me I would think it a not thought through gift but wouldn't throw it out. But I do understand your DP's feelings, its like trying to bottle his culture up into a gimmick and racial stereotype, rythm and blues = affro hair.

Every culture experiences it, take Yorkshire tea for example. But Afro hair is associated with negative ideas and the product description even talks about controlling frizz:www.lushusa.com/shop/products/hair/hair-treatments/randb so the idea is that this frizzy hair that is being associated with African/ Carribbean culture needs controlling.

There are lots of feelings behind this and I know my African/ Carribean freinds would not like this either, but some people wont mind.

If you are looking for something for your daughters hair, have you tried Dark N Lovely? It is available at all African/ Carribean hair shops, there are also lots of other childrens brands made by African/ Carribean people for childrens hair specifically. Maybe use cocoa/ shea butter or carrot oil which is amazing!

Oh and didn't realise that only black people made/liked R&B music

Oh and I love Coming To America too, Soul Glo!

Lazy stereotyping ? Yes

Racist? No

Clever(ish) marketing? Yes

Bound to be a tad pricey ? Yes

LUSH (the shop) - grab that gas mask

LUSH (the word) - the biggest export from Wales since 2007

Sooouuuuuulllll Glooowwwwww

So they are associating r&b music with having afro hair and are therefore black? And this is a problem because r&b didn't originate with people who were black?

I'm confused.

Thanks for your comments, good to see most of you are on my side in believing this to be an overreaction. Dh's point is, why does there have to be any reference to something of traditional black origin i.e.R & B in the naming of something targeted at black people? According to him, the fact its short for Revive and Balance is beside the point and rather orchestrated.

He quite often goes off on one at the drop of a hat. I'll show him your posts!!!

What I'm interested in is finding a product that is not choc-full-of chemicals and as natural as possible. I used organic coconut oil and shea butter in her hair when she was a baby, from Akamuti, as well as traditional black soap from the same company to wash it with. however, now we're on more of a budget and its rather pricey. Dh has bought 'kids organics (by Africa's best) but I'm not convinced of its 'organic' credentials as it contains parabens etc.

I'm looking forward to "thin & lank"!

I can sort of see his point OP in that it does seem a bit convenient. But from my DH's POV (and mine come to that) there are still so many big battles to be won in the war against racism that perhaps it's better to save the little ones for when we have nothing worse to fight against. Does that make sense?! I know what I mean :o