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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

homophobia on school bus

35 replies

whatkatydidathome · 09/03/2011 16:52

dd (10) gets a school bus full of (10 - 14yr olds). The community served is wealthy with outwardly middle class people but many (sadly most) of them have rather dubious values. So her bus is full of racist and homophobic prats who keep teasing and minorly bullying dd. Today they spent the journey asking her if she was "normal or bent", laughing because she didn't know what they meant and then teasing her when she said that she didn't think that there was anything wrong with men who married men and women who married women. They moved on to arguments where they all said that everyone who came from India was a terrorist. What do I tell her to do? She is completely out of her depth here. I have spoken to the council etc but I'd appriciate advice as to the advice that I give her when it comes to coping with instances of homophobia and racism. I don't want her t become more socially isolated than she already is but she is struggling with the fact that her values are so different to that of the majority. Her social skills are non existant which doesn't make things any better.

OP posts:

PepsiPopcorn · 09/03/2011 16:55

Have you spoken to the school? I think it would be a good idea to make them aware of this.

MillyR · 09/03/2011 17:03

I would speak to the school; it is not acceptable.

slug · 09/03/2011 17:11

I second (third?) speaking to the school. Send the head a letter. Include the terms racism and homophobic bullying. If necessary get a copy of the school bullying policy just to make a point.

You may be pleasantly surprised by their reaction. Last year I had to take DD on the bus once a week. At the bus stop by the local secondary school there was always a bit of pushing, shoving and shouting. One week it was particularly bad and scared DD. I sent an email to the school. The next week there were police officers at the bus stop.

Original poster

whatkatydidathome · 09/03/2011 17:17

It is an ongoing problem - I have spoken to the school and they have dealt with previous incidetns, talked to the children etc. The problem is that the parents are often rasict and homophobic. What I'm trying to avoid is increasing dds social isolation.

OP posts:

worraliberty · 09/03/2011 17:19

Yep speak to the school by all means but you know to be honest, the world is full of people with opposing views/and ignorant opinions...she's going to have to learn to cope soon especially as senior school is looming.

SmashingNarcissistsMirrors · 09/03/2011 17:20

this is horrible. i used to get racist and homophobic abuse on the school bus almost 30 years ago. so sad that things haven't moved on.

TobyLerone · 09/03/2011 17:24

That's awful. I just got the whole pack of forms/info about the grammar school my son will be attending in September. There is a sheet in there about how they expect the boys to conduct themselves on school/public transport and while wearing school uniform. They are very strict on this.

I would ask the school if they have some sort of policy on this. Definitely complain to them. Your poor daughter :(

Original poster

whatkatydidathome · 09/03/2011 17:32

worra my question is how? Should I tell her to just keep quiet or does she have to join in? The school have got a policy, they are very strict but there is no supervision on the bus.

OP posts:

MillyR · 09/03/2011 17:37

The school will have to have a policy by law on homophobic incidents, and they will have to formally record that your DD has experienced such an incident.

complexnumber · 09/03/2011 17:55

SmashingNarcissistsMirrors: It is so depressing to think things have not moved on.

My impression is that people have changed, but then I am not in a position to receive the awful flak.

Terraviva · 09/03/2011 17:57

It is awful & terrible the jokes the kids are making, and of course I totally agree that homophobic & racist comments are unacceptable, but isn't there a risk that by complaining to the school you could socially isolate your daughter even further? If you complain to the school & the school reacts is there a chance the other children will know it was because of your daughter? Surely they will hound her even more if so! If you must speak to the school, could it be directed at helping your daughter to deal with the 'rowdy' behaviour on the bus? Trying to change the behaviour of the all the other children, especially when as you say most of the other parents are themselves racists & homophobic, sounds like a bigger battle than helping your daughter develop strategies to deal with them. Like what worraliberty said.

I don't have children myself (yet!), but I identify massively with your daughter in this situation. The school bus can be a nightmare! For what it's worth, my 2 cents says you should work with your daughter to help her come up with some witty comebacks or ways to diffuse the situation if the school bus bully gang are focusing on her. There must be some online resources to help with this type of situation?

Blu · 09/03/2011 18:04

I'm not sure what is behind her wider problems with isolation and social skills, but geneally the people who get left alone are the people who don't get fazed by teasing and winding up.

DS is sometimes teased by kids making comments about his mnor disability. He is confident that talk like that is more about the person saying it and he regards them as beneath worrying about.

Tel her not to attempt to challenge it all, if they ask her any question like 'are you bent' and she doesn't know what it is, to smile, shrug and say 'I don't know what it is, but with most things it takes one to know one' and then look out of the window or at a book.

Also, could she find an adult passenger to sit next to, or is it exclusively a school bus?

Kidscape and NSPCC have links, I think, to being assertive / gaining self-confidence.

edam · 09/03/2011 18:06

Stonewall might have some advice about handling homophobic bullying. And the Equalities Commission might have that plus racial bullying. And Kidscape is a v. good charity that has loads of advice on bullying in general.

I think school has an obligation to record all incidents of racism (not sure about homophobia) so I would continue to press the school to deal with this. Ask for a copy of the anti-bullying policy. And do stress that whatever action they take must protect dd against bullying, rather than going in heavy handed in a way that makes the bullies turn against dd even more.

worraliberty · 09/03/2011 18:09

What do you mean about telling her to keep quiet or join in OP? I don't understand?

I would just tell her to brush them off and try not to engage in conversation if at all possible...or to see if she can change the subject to something a little nicer.

Blu · 09/03/2011 18:16

Are these kids from the same school? In her class? her 'mates'? or children she doesn't know from another school?

She can't challenge a mob of kids she doesn't have a friendly relationship with so unless she can come up with confident witty replies (in 10 yo terms,of course) her best bet is to shrug it off, tell herself in her head that they are rude and idiotic, and wait for the conversation to change.

Terraviva · 09/03/2011 18:21

Just saw your question to Worra.

You could help her decide if she wants to join in or stay quiet? Walk her through the choices... Let her know that the 'right' thing to do is a choice she can actively make. She knows that homophobic & racist comments are wrong, but standing up to people who make such comments draws attention to yourself. Is she ready for that? Are her ideals more important than 'fitting in'? Does she want to fit in with people who she doesn't like or respect? Would she get more respect (both self respect & respect from others who think as she does) in the long term by being an 'outsider', but one who is true to herself? What will she achieve by challeging their views in this instance?

We all know that the classic 'right thing to do' is to challenge such views when you find them. But at this stage in your DD's life, maybe fitting in is more important to her? Have a discussion - is keeping quiet the same as joining in? Sometimes it is; you only have to look at Nazi Germany (yes it's an extreme example I know when talking about the school bus). We are aware that staying silent to racist/homophobic comments is a slippery slope. But other occasions, by standing up you may well do damage to yourself and achieve nothing. Some battles you have to lose in order to win the war, kind of thing. But if she does decide to stand up to them, help her figure out how, and talk through the different possible outcomes. Maybe rent some inspirational movies about people who take a stand against racism or homophobia?!

I really don't know what the right answer is, but it seems the opportunity is there to have a very meaningful discussion with your daughter and guide her through this moral maze to making a very 'grown up' decision. At least then, whatever she decides to do she knows she has deliberately made that decision and as such is in control of the situation. Good luck to your daughter!

Terraviva · 09/03/2011 18:23

Ooops! Didn't realise she was only 10! Sorry, I thought she was a bit older. Not sure if my advice still holds true for a 10 year old, or if as others have said she should just ignore it.

talkingnonsense · 09/03/2011 18:26

Is it a school bus or a public bus? If the latter there is a limited amount the school can do, and I would talk to the bus company. Sometimes theey will put on an escort, though this is usually for severe bullying or disruption to the driver. ( not implying racism/sexism less important, just that money is always tight for these things.) if not a school bus, are there other routes home? ,aybe with a friend?

MillyR · 09/03/2011 18:28

what the bus company can do is refuse to let the pupils causing trouble on the bus the following day.

PepsiPopcorn · 09/03/2011 18:34

She could say "I'm not interested in talking about this with you" or "I disagree" or "We've already had this conversation before". Just something bland to make the bullies get bored.

Original poster

whatkatydidathome · 09/03/2011 21:50

It is a school bus and so far I have contacted the council (who run it) rather than the school so as to avoid the school rushing in and making it obvious that it was dd who complained.

Part of the problem is that dd has no social skills or ability to work out when to respond without a set of clear guidelines. She is actually great o witty comebacks but the sort of witty comebacks that an adult would understand not a 10 year old. She has no friends so cannot come home with anyone. She does have a walkman (battery ran out today) which we gave her to listen to on the bus but she does need to learn to fit in with these children and start to try to socialise - I don't want her to go into adolesence with no friends. I'm just srtuggling to come up with a set of rules for this. She is very logical and I can't seem ot get her to understand why the children are homophobic or rascist. I also can't get her to see how this - ie rsponding to "are you gay" is different to responding to "do you like tomatoes" or somethgin similar.

OP posts:

edam · 09/03/2011 21:53

Has anyone mentioned that book The Unwritten Rules of Friendship to you? Seen it recommended on here before. May have something of use to dd?

squeakytoy · 09/03/2011 21:54

Is there a reason why she has no social skills or ability? What reason do they (think) they have for picking on your daughter?

SeeJaneKick · 09/03/2011 21:57

Tell her to say "Blah blah blah....you sound like sheep bleating about stuff you dont understand..now shut up or I'll get my big brother to whup your skinny arse under the bus wheels...and I will"

That should do it.

SeeJaneKick · 09/03/2011 21:59

If you want her to fit in, then she'll have to toughen up a bit or learn to fake it.

Harsh but true.

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