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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

Poppy burner

98 replies

GORGEOUSX · 08/03/2011 13:28

In thinking that the man, who happens to be Muslim, got off with a ludicrous judgement for burning poppies?

I say he happens to be Muslim, because Baroness Warsi thinks Muslims get a bad press.

So this man, who happens to be a muslim, got off with a £50 fine and then went on the BBC news to have a jolly good laugh about it.

When the American reverend wanted to come to the UK to talk about burning Korans, he was, quite rightly IMO banned from entering the country; yet this man who deliberately caused many many British people a great deal of upset and offense, by his disgusting behaviour, and total disregard for people in this country, is not even in prison.

OP posts:

mistressploppy · 08/03/2011 13:31

Should he have gone to prison though, for what he did? Freedom of speech and all that... He should be punished, yes, for the deliberate distress he caused, and I think £50 is a bit of an insult, but coming down overly heavily is not the answer, methinks.

KnittedBreast · 08/03/2011 13:35

i disagree, i dont think burning a poppy warrants 50 pound fine at all

BulletWithAName · 08/03/2011 13:39

It's not the burning of the poppy as such though that was offensive, it's the reason why he burned it.

Rhinestone · 08/03/2011 13:40

I wonder what punishment someone - who might just happen to be White English - would have got for burning the Koran?

If they would have received a £50 fine then fair enough. Free speech and all that. However if they would have received a stiffer sentence around 'racial harassment' (even though Islam is a religion, not a race) then I agree with you.

I actually really like 'Baroness' Warsi but I think she would do well to remember that no-one actually voted for her. Hence she got appointed to the place where you can make laws in our country even though NO-ONE VOTED FOR YOU.

I mean, as much as I detest Nick Griffin he did actually get democratically elected. I would like her even more if she jacked in the silly title and actually attempted to get elected. By votes. In a democracy.

KnittedBreast · 08/03/2011 13:42

but a poppy isnt the same as quran, one is a religious book and the other is a flower. ok it represents all the service people that died but it isnt an attck on britain, christianity etc...

BulletWithAName · 08/03/2011 13:42

I wonder what punishment someone - who might just happen to be White English - would have got for burning the Koran?

Yes, I wonder also.

FellatioNelson · 08/03/2011 13:42

He must have picked his language very, very carefully so as not to be slapped with a charge of inciting religious or racial hatred, for which I'm sure he could have been jailed, or at least get a suspended sentence. I think he did some research and maybe took legal advice beforehand, egged on by islamist extremist groups, he knew what he could be charged with, and what the likely punishment would be, and pushed the boundaries within certain limits to make a rather nasty hate-filled point but within certain limits. I saw him on the news yesterday and he seemed like a rather stupid, smug individual who wasn't even especially articulate to me.

QuelleLeJeff · 08/03/2011 13:42

He is on Radio 2 at the moment.

BulletWithAName · 08/03/2011 13:43

I saw him on the news yesterday and he seemed like a rather stupid, smug individual who wasn't even especially articulate to me.

Like most racists then?

FellatioNelson · 08/03/2011 13:43

Yes, absolutely, and I think that's what he is.

BulletWithAName · 08/03/2011 13:45

Ha, what a surprise, he's on benefits. Hates the country he lives in but still manages to claim everything under the sun.

Rhinestone · 08/03/2011 13:46

The poppy is a very sacred symbol for some people. The Koran is a very sacred book for some people. I think you're being disingenuous - it wasn't the actual flower he burnt, it was the little paper poppy sold in aid of the British Legion and worn in memory of our war dead.

As much as I find it offensive, I believe in free speech and I actually think he has a right to burn a poppy. I also think one has a right to burn a Koran if one wants to. (I wouldn't I hasten to add but that's because I also believe in respect and courtesy!)

I'm just slightly sceptical that someone burning the Koran would only receive a £50 fine.

BulletWithAName · 08/03/2011 13:49

I agree with you Rhinestone about free speech.

I'm also sceptical about the £50 for burning the Qu'ran. I'm willing to bet that it would be taken as an indictment of racial hatred.

FellatioNelson · 08/03/2011 13:50

He says when we pull all troops out of Afghanistan and Iraq he'll happily stop claiming benefits and move over there. But he's of Pakistani heritage and we don't have any troops there, but I don't see him dashing over there to live....

mayorquimby · 08/03/2011 13:51

seems a reasonable judgment to me.

Rhinestone · 08/03/2011 13:53

Yes, I personally find what he did utterly offensive but free speech means we will ALL get offended sometimes. (As I argued on another thread recently and got flamed but in my defence, I accept that I'll sometimes be offended too!)

But free speech only seems to work in certain directions.

I also disagreed with banning the US pastor who might have been planning to burn a Koran. Surely you can't ban people from your country on the grounds they might exercise their right to freedom of speech / expression?!

FellatioNelson · 08/03/2011 13:53

I don't think the two can be compared in terms of crimes, as burning a Koran would be inciting religious or racial hatred, whereas the poppy burning stunt was in incredibly bad taste and highly offensive, but unfortunately it can be dressed up as legitimate political protest. What was he done for - breach of the peace or something similar?

MaryMungo · 08/03/2011 13:55

I hate to say it, but burning poppies isn't going to cause much more trouble than angry letters to the paper, and over-reactive FB postings. Burning a Koran, OTOH, would be feared to lead to a different level of reaction. At least, that's what I think the perception is....

BulletWithAName · 08/03/2011 13:55

Burning a Qu'ran though shouldn't be taken as racial hatred really as Islam is not a race.

Rhinestone · 08/03/2011 13:56

Fellatio - please explain how it would be inciting racial hatred? Islam is not a race; it is a religion.

I don't think there is any law against inciting religious hatred. It was talked about but never happened.

Original poster

GORGEOUSX · 08/03/2011 13:57

Rhinestone I agree with you, and I too like Baroness Warsi - just don't agree with everything she says.

OP posts:

FellatioNelson · 08/03/2011 13:57

I did say religious or racial hatred, becuse I think that that particular law covers both/either. Obviously in the case of burning a Koran it would be religious.

BulletWithAName · 08/03/2011 13:57

I think you're right MaryMungo.

bristolcities · 08/03/2011 13:58

offensive yes, but surly the difference is it's not directly inciting racial hatred unlike burning a Koran.

Sorry if it's already been said, just skimmed.

Rhinestone · 08/03/2011 14:01

FOR THE LAST TIME -

Islam is NOT a race. It is a religion, comprising people of many different races - black, Arab, white, Asian etc etc.

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