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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to think "being drunk" is no defence for raping someone

259 replies

SmashingNarcissistsMirrors · 08/03/2011 12:15

i'm absolutely shocked by this case where a man has been acquited of raping a woman because he was so drunk he thought she was his girlfriend and didn't realise he was in the wrong bedroom.

this is so so wrong. how many men will now use "being drunk" as a defence?

not only this but according to the article the girlfriend had earlier said she was too ill for sex. plus the victims phone was found dismantled in the mans sock when he was arrested.

how can this happen?

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1363964/Haydor-Khan-cleared-rape-said-thought-I-BRUNETTE-girlfriend.html

OP posts:
HairyTruckDriver · 10/03/2011 14:37

it strikes me as very odd

  1. the excuse of being so drunk he didn't know what he was doing could possibly count towards some sort of lesser sentence but not as an absolute excuse.
  1. she didnt wake up when he undressed her and got on top of her and only woke up when he was shagging her

To me it sounds like they got drunk and went to bed together and then she realised what she was doing and blew him out hence his feigned disgust about her age etc... (lets be honest, what lad of his age would really not want to sleep with her)

I realise this won't be a popular view but it just doesnt stack up

AyeRobot · 10/03/2011 14:45

Jester, diddl, TLE - I am so sorry you had to go through all of that. I believe you all. Shame on those that didn't.

HairyTruckDriver · 10/03/2011 14:47
mayorquimby · 10/03/2011 14:51

because your opinion is based up on a flimsy theory of made up assumptions.
why would there be a rape case if they went to bed together and then she blew him out of the water?
why would this have not been his defence?

HairyTruckDriver · 10/03/2011 14:52

why did the jury acquit him?

ZZZenAgain · 10/03/2011 14:52

we don't know

HairyTruckDriver · 10/03/2011 14:57

Maybe they were right to do so - we don't know that's just the point.

I don't believe drunkeness is an exuse for rape
I don't believe any human being should rape another
I also don't believe a jury would have believed that the sex was consensual
We all draw our own conclusions based on the evidence we see.

BUT

my opinion is no less valid than yours

HairyTruckDriver · 10/03/2011 15:00

the trouble is that for every genuine rape there is another person falsely accusing another of rape which only serves to discredit genuine victims

I think some of you lot would rather just bang them all up just to be safe - that's not the solution

VajazzHands · 10/03/2011 15:01

the trouble is that for every genuine rape there is another person falsely accusing another of rape which only serves to discredit genuine victims

Uh you what?? Where did you find this statistic?

mayorquimby · 10/03/2011 15:01

because they obviously accepted his story that he had a reasonable belief as to her consent and so lacked the requisite mens rea for the crim of rape.
How you have come to the conclusion that this equates to the two of them having copped off consensually and then her subsequently changing her mind is just ridiculous and smacks of trying to be contentious and get a rise out of people.
even if we are to take your premise that the two of them got drunk and went to her bed-room before she subsequently changed her mind (I'm not sure what you are contending after this point. do you believe he a)ignored her and continued thus raping her or B) that the woman regretted her actions and accused him of rape despite no such rape taking place), why in the hell would he then concoct a fairly implausible story that he got drunk, mistook the rooms and women and thought he was having consensual sex with his girlfriend? because that is a far less likely explanation to get him acquitted than if he'd used your story of "we got drunk and went to bed consensually. she now regrets her actions so is accusing me of rape." which would turn it into a he said v she said case and give him a far greater margin of likelihood to convince the jury of reasonable doubt/ a reasonably held belief on the part of the accused that the woman was in fact consenting at the time of the act.

mayorquimby · 10/03/2011 15:02

annoyed I took the time to respond now

"the trouble is that for every genuine rape there is another person falsely accusing another of rape which only serves to discredit genuine victims

I think some of you lot would rather just bang them all up just to be safe - that's not the solution"

obvious troll is obvious

mayorquimby · 10/03/2011 15:02

"my opinion is no less valid than yours"

it is though

HairyTruckDriver · 10/03/2011 15:22

I think you are being a little bit silly really. You obviously want to view this through your man hating spectacles which of course is your perogative.

There is no doubt that people do falsely accuse others of rape all the time and the jury is there to decide the outcome of the rape case. I'm not sure what makes you think that you know better than a jury though Confused

There is clearly no point trying to reason with you because you've made up your mind BUT my opinion is still no less valid than yours and you can't get away from that one - sorry

AyeRobot · 10/03/2011 15:27

As OTheHugeDaffodils said on another thread, if you think rain is caused by sky-hamsters all weeing at once, then I'd feel justified in thinking your opinion was less valid than mine.

False rape allegations are no more likely than for any other crime.

Just out of interest, have you read all of this thread?

sethstarkaddersmackerel · 10/03/2011 15:30

Whether your opinion is valid or not is a matter of opinion. I personally find the opinions more valid that are based on evidence and fact rather than random assertions by people who don't actually know anything about the topic. For instance, the opinion of the police that the rate of false accusations of rape is around 2% is more likely to be valid than that of someone on the internet who just spouts outrageous claims and doesn't back stuff up or argue logically.

But of course, that's just my opinion.

mayorquimby · 10/03/2011 15:33

"my opinion is still no less valid than yours and you can't get away from that one - sorry"

I can though.
There's an old mantra
"everyone is entitled to their own opinion,however not everyone is entitled to have it respected."

Put it this way white supremacists of are the opinion that black people are an inferior race, this is not as valid an opinion as that of others.

HairyTruckDriver · 10/03/2011 15:35

Yes, you are being silly - enjoy your man-hating

Prolesworth · 10/03/2011 15:37

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

mayorquimby · 10/03/2011 15:37

"There is clearly no point trying to reason.."

there is though. reason with me, that's the point of debate.
It's why I've come on this thread and debated points of legal analysis wrt this case.
So far your reason has consisted of anectdotle evidence oof "everyone knows that there's false rape allegations all the time/ for every rape there's a false accusation.." neither of which are borne out by statistics and are patently ridiculous.
Hence the weight of your argument and reasoning power is lessened by the fact that you are offering no basis for your opinion of what happened in this case beyond "I reckon this happened....xyz... and I don't have to justify or prove what I reckon because I'm entitled to my opinion."

mayorquimby · 10/03/2011 15:40

"Yes, you are being silly - enjoy your man-hating"

a) I'm a man

b) I have offered possible valid legal reasons as to how the jury may have arrived at the conclusion that legally a rape had not taken place.despite completely disagreeing these possible reasons or logic that they may have implemented, that's how reasoned debate works. Trying to look at the nuances of the argument and how the other side may possibly argue a point.

BringBackGoingForGold · 10/03/2011 15:43

Exactly, sethstark. False accusations in rape cases are v low and in line with false accusations in other areas of crime. Funny then how you hear much more about women being suspected/accused of making up rape stories than people making up burglary/murder/etc stories.

StayFrosty · 10/03/2011 15:43

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

mayorquimby · 10/03/2011 15:45

"And arf arf at mayorquimby being called a manhater, classic."

I know. It's normally my rampant mysoginy which is being castigated. You can't win on here sometimes.

Grin
StayFrosty · 10/03/2011 15:49

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

HerBeX · 10/03/2011 15:52

"the trouble is that for every genuine rape there is another person falsely accusing another of rape which only serves to discredit genuine victims"

1 in 4 women get raped or sexually assaulted.

Between 60 and 90% of them, don't bother to report it because they know that most people believe the shit HairyTrucker does. 2-4% of rape allegations are false.

Can you see with those figures, which are based on evidence and research HairyTrucker, not just kneejerk mysogynist myth, why your statement is so far from the truth? That it's so far from the truth that you might say with more accuracy: "For every true allegation of rape, there are 10 other women walking around who have been raped who haven't reported it"? Are you willing to learn? Or do you prefer to add to the climate where your mother, sister, daughter, has a 1 in 4 chance of being raped or sexually assaulted and practically a 0% chance of justice if she is?